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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

What are you good people at MN doing getting involved in a tie in with *Aptamil*???????

221 replies

moondog · 12/08/2005 18:28

Wonder how many feel as disappointed as me????

OP posts:
Willow2 · 13/08/2005 20:08

Or, to put it more bluntly, if you were given the choice of enforced subs but no aptamil ads or pay as you please/if you please and an aptamil ad which one would you select?

WigWamBam · 13/08/2005 20:19

I'd rather enforced subs, to be honest, but that's how I feel regardless of who's advertising.

SaintGeorge · 13/08/2005 20:37

Enforced subs a little unfair if people can't afford to pay though.

I wonder how many more clicks the Aptamil site has had simply due to this thread. I rarely even look at the home page and wouldn't have done today if I hadn't read this.

CarolinaMoon · 13/08/2005 20:42

I hate the fact that MN has to carry ads from companies who can't legally advertise their products. It makes me very uncomfortable to think that MN can't afford to refuse advertising that so many MNers object to.

Of course advertising like this works - if it didn't, why would Milupa be prepared to pay that much for it?

I wouldn't want to see enforced subs, because it's unfair to deny access to MNers who can't afford to pay. But I'm feeling very guilty that I haven't contributed more myself.

Willow2 · 13/08/2005 20:49

The Mumsnet ad doesn't say "ditch breastfeeding and feed your kid this stuff" - so, despite the fact that it links to information that pushes it, it doesn't break the code.

Aragon · 13/08/2005 20:53

I think there's two seperate issues here.

  1. That MN carries the ad which (as someone else said) I did not notice till it was pointed out. Personally I feel that if all the ads help keep this fabulous site up and running then I don't care what they are advertising. We don't have to be drawn in.

The second issue is the whole advertising by baby milk companies thing. That is a minefield which has been debated by better (and at present less tired) minds than mine. Go check out Baby Milk Action, look at the whole advertising thing if it interests you - there's a real war going on at times. Go join the fray if you've the time and energy. Personally I feel that these companies always do what they want. Their record as regards promoting formula milk (especially in third world countries) is utterly appalling and they have the deaths of many babies on their hands as a result. Babis who might have lived if only they had been breastfed and not subjected to formula made up with dirty water by mothers who were influenced by the fat, healthy and white babies on the ads.

That really is my last post here.

Chandra · 13/08/2005 20:55

Apologies in advance as I have not red the full thread but I don't find the ad that problematic. We are bombarded with far more info about breast being best that I really don't think a single ad about formula buried in a site about breastfeeding is going to have much impact. actually, I'm sure that this debate is actually bringing a good amount of readers to the Milupa site...

Ladymuck · 13/08/2005 21:06

I'm not convinced that Milupa would part with its hard earned cash to Mumsnet, unless it thought that it reap a benefit - future customers.

Many of the women who use Mumsnet do not even come onto the "Talk" section, though obviously it is from this section that MN gets its subscribers. Some users do come on to look at content (the best buys etc). They get the emails and they do look at the home page (It took me 9 months to visit the talk section, though admittedly it wasn't as busy way back then!)

Milupa obviously feels that there will be enough interest to warrant its "ad" in order to pay up. So that bothers me. But personnally I'm beyond the stage of using their products. MN got some negative feedback when they brought this up, but ultimately they're a business, so money will be a driver. But I feel that it could weaken the Mumsnet brand. Boden, Mark Warner and Milupa....

Demented · 13/08/2005 21:11

OK I shopped my local supermarket to Trading Standards for reducing baby milk (it was possibly my thread that Lunavix remembers). I don't think its fair to say 'we are all intelligent people 50p off a tin of formula isn't going to stop us b/feeding if we want to', however we cannot assume that everyone is as intelligent or sensible. I remember when my DS1 was newborn and I was trying to b/feed him all I could think about was formula, it was difficult enough to keep going with family/friends telling me to give up and change to bottles and in addition my HV recommending a bottle of formula a day I would have given up far sooner if presented with adverts telling me how close to b/milk a certain brand of formula was or being presented with regular special offers on formula at the supermarket.

I try to avoid Nestle if possible as their practices in third world countries have sickened me.

However I am not critisising MN for taking the Aptimel ad as we are all very intelligent on MN and know the different between making up our own minds and an advertising ploy.

QueenOfQuotes · 13/08/2005 21:20

"fat, healthy and white babies on the ads"

They tend to show black babies on the ads in those countries................

cowers in the corner waiting for the attack*

hunkermunker · 13/08/2005 21:22

Not always though, QoQ - they quite like women to think that the western way is to formula-feed...

QueenOfQuotes · 13/08/2005 21:24

Well all of the ones I saw in Zim had gorgeous little black babies beaming back at me - although admittedly I can't remember if they were the "big" international brands or whether they were local formula makers.

MarsLady · 13/08/2005 21:27

qoq I don't think you need to worry quite so much. there are lots of ads around with fat gorgeous black and mixed race babies. I don't think it's an issue here.

you might want it to be one.... cowers in the corner waiting for the attack* .... but it's not.

QueenOfQuotes · 13/08/2005 21:28

Have to say I do see the sense (sort of) in not allowing advertising of formula milk, but don't really see the benefits of not advertising the special offers.

Surely if a mother has already made the decision (happy one or not) to bottle feed there's no harm in giving them speical offers.

I know of a few bottle feeding mum's who've put their babies onto Cows milk MUCH earlier than 12 months because they found the price of formula milk so difficult to keep up with.

QueenOfQuotes · 13/08/2005 21:29

Marslady - perhaps you should read the post which my comments were based on and you'll see it's ver relevant.

moondog · 13/08/2005 21:30

I know that the idea of paying mothers to b/feed has been mooted by health professionals,as with lower income families,the fact that one receives government tokens to buy formula is often seen as some sort of an incentive.

OP posts:
MarsLady · 13/08/2005 21:31

times please, too lazy to scroll down

jessicaandbumpsmummy · 13/08/2005 21:32

ML - she is "QOQ" after all.... she must put the quotes in for you!!!

Demented · 13/08/2005 21:33

IMO mothers on low incomes should be given a choice, if they are b/feeding they should be given money for feeding bras or vouchers for healthy foods.

QueenOfQuotes · 13/08/2005 21:33

Arragon - 8.53 - comment about ads showing healthy white babies

MarsLady · 13/08/2005 21:36

still don't see why you had to say it though.... still up to you

QueenOfQuotes · 13/08/2005 21:41

errr - perhaps because of the assumption that all baby formula in Developing Countries had pictures of White Babies on them, which isn't true - wouldn't be very good advertising really would it showing people that have no relevance to your life???

Many poor black people in devloping countries have the general "assumption" that all white babies are healthy - it doesn't matter one iota to them whether they thought the baby was BF or Bottlefed.

However, if they see healthy black babies then it's much more likely that the advertisement will draw them in and potentially buy the formula as they see a baby like there's which is strong and healthy.

And why do I get the feeling you only posted on this thread to try and wind me up???

MarsLady · 13/08/2005 21:43

no I came by cos of a comment I saw elsewhere about milupa and I wanted to know why the thread was so long. had a read and there you were commenting on black babies...... thought I'd ask why you brought it up, you told me but I was still none the wiser as I know that there are lots of black babies on lots of advertisting.

suedonim · 13/08/2005 21:53

Formula advertising in Indonesia used white babies. (Many, many products, clothing, mobile phones, cars, you name it were sold using white models and the array of 'whitening' cosmetics for women to buy was vast.) I saw a Nestle baby food advisor in a store and there were many tins of formula (not just Nestle) with only English instructions on them, not Bahasa Indonesia.

Caligula · 13/08/2005 21:57

I think the point with formula feed companies is that it doesn't matter how intelligent you are, you can still subliminally accept a message that has been constant throughout your life. I consider myself to be intelligent (though I'm sure there are many who would disagree ) and I read loads about breastfeeding while I was pregnant, so I was frankly better informed about breastfeeding than some of the midwives I met, but I think I still at an unconscious level, had absorbed the message that there really isn't that much difference. And now I'm pissed off that I'd absorbed that message and realise how pernicious the constant promotion of formula and undermining of breastfeeding is. Because for me when I was vulnerable and desperate after two weeks without one single successful feed, that subconscious message was the deciding factor in the course of action I took. And call me an egotist, but surely I can't be alone in that? And that is why that message should be blocked wherever it sneaks in.

Of course one ad isn't going to persuade anyone to use formula instead of breastfeeding. But communication doesn't work like that - it's a long, painstaking process of drip drip drip into people's consciousness, so that after a certain period of time, no matter how intelligent, observant, etc., we are, we automatically have certain emotions or images when we come across something. Think of any great brand and the chances are, most of us will have fairly similar images of them (if not opinions), because the brand values have been communicated to us so succesfully. Same with stereotypes - if you repeat them over and over again, they will enter your consciousness, whether you agree with them or not and when you are feeling vulnerable, fearful whatever, the subliminal messages that you've absorbed will come and bite you on the bum.