What are you good people at MN doing getting involved in a tie in with *Aptamil*???????

[moondog]

Wonder how many feel as disappointed as me????

i havent read the site as it wont let me access it. the link doesnt work for me.

don't worry- all 3 of mine have been monsters- but my ds1 (bfed to 13 months) was the hugest of them all Skinny now. Mind you I'd rejoice for a week if he would eat a (gluten free) turkey twizzler now.

Jimjams, I totally see that there are times when the best or only choice is to bottle feed. I do, however, also know that many women have such low confidence about their own ability to bf. I think if we see formuale milk advertised everywhere (and especially places like MN and places women trust to give them good information) then we will never get the bf-rate up. I just don't think feeding your baby should be commercialised. Not baby food either tbh. I have never grated a carrot for my children in my life, relying fully on processed baby food, so not on my high horse at all!

Also, I do think the principle about advertising is the same as in third world countries although not as extreme consequences. Basically women trust something which is mad by a company better than what they themselves can produce.

Haven't read the whole thread 'cos couldn't be arsed to get into the breast/formula debate, but someone said{and I'm not naming names) that not breatsfeeding and giving formula is "lazy". Bollocks, that's their decision, no-one knows anyone else's life and circumstances and that comment is well out of order IMHO. People have to work, live, exist and that sort of comment just fuels the stupid "Oh, well I did this and I'm so perfect etc etc" debate. Each to his own

jollymum - I hope you don't mean me that's not what I meant!

I meant that most breastfeeding mums see bottlefeeding as lazy, and if a parent ever chose bottlefeeding to be lazy (more fool them as it is such harder work) then I don't think advertising on the qualities breast milk and formula have will make much difference.

Sorry

Oh and while i'm here, why is it so bad t advertise formula? FGS, it's just food for babies, not bloody arsenic. Let's not advertise Calpol, 'cos it might offend all the homeopaths out there (DON'T GO THERE UNTIL YOU KNOW MY SITUATION AND JOBLet's not advertise bras in case it offend braless lladies...
FGS, look at all the people who want and need babies so much, they're probably shouting that we don't care what we feed them as long as we have been given the gift of one....{not speaking for any wannabee mums/dads etc etc PC correctness gone mad}

No offense meant or taken to anyone. Why do breastfeeding mums think bottle feeding is lazy? I wish I'd had the time to breastfeed but I had to work and juggle kids. I would have loved to have had the time/money to sit at home feeding and doing stuff but that's life.All power to those mums, it would have been nice

Message withdrawn

I was so depressed when breastfeeding didn't work out for me. I lost count though of the number of times people said "don't worry - bottlefeeding's easier".

Who on earth were they trying to kid. Personally I thought bottlefeeding was a right pain in the arse - all that mucking about with bottles and sterilizers when I could have (if all had gone well) just plonked my DS on the breast and been done with it.

Nope - definitlely nothing lazy about bottlefeeding.

I wouldn't have minded that much if I saw the "breast is best" posters and information about breast feeding advertised next to it. Unfortunately I suppose not enough money for this side and as soon as you put one of those posters up, you are Breastapo, aren't you?

Calm down dear it's only a commercial.....

Well ds3 has just polished off a bottle and is now latched onto the breast drifting off to sleep. I know which I found easier. I loathe sterilising.

Hello everyone,
Thanks for raising this, we do take your points about formula advertising, it's not easy and it is something we've thought long and hard about. Whilst this is obviously an attempt by a formula company to promote their brand we are pretty sure mumsnetters will not be persuaded to switch to formula as a result of this campaign. Further they are offering some interesting events for mums and naturally paying mumsnet a not insignificant amount for doing it - one that really will pay the server bills for a good few months.

We did this raise the issue of advertising a while back and after a lot of input from folks we kind of came up with a policy of "we'll take their ads but not allow them to sponsor us" policy for formula companies and others who some folks, though by no means all, were wary of.

So on balance we thought it was ok host these ads but we might be wrong and we do certainly value your thoughts so keep em coming and we promise to discuss again when all the team are back from their travels (Signing off myself now for a couple of weeks now - have fun all ).

Moondog I was only ever pressurised to breastfeed not bottle feed.

I cant see why formula advertising is illegal anyway. |Can anyone explain why?

I don't have a problem with it being advertised on the site or anywhere else tbh, I don't understand why it is illegal to advertise or give discounts on formula (I didn't know this!!) - it's like it's something to be ashamed about!

It's down to personal choice or physical ability (I struggled with DS1 so bottle fed) and it has nothing to do with cost, after all, a 50p coupon for example isn't going to stop someone from breastfeeding (which is free).

I think Moondogs post of 7.27 explains why it is illegal, it mainly stems from agressive promotion of formula in third world countries where babies die from drinking formula and unclean water. BF rates are comparitively low in this country with other parts of Europe and if banning the advertisement of formula helps to push up the rates then i don't actually see what the problem is. If you need to use formula as i did with my DS2 after suffering PND then we all know where to get it, and if we are interested in what is in it then we can find out, so actually there is not an awful lot of need to advertise it, unless you are a cynical multi-million pound company trying to out do your rivals and make a profit. Noone here is saying formula doesn't have its place after all many of us ahve made a choise to use it in varying circumstances, but making it legal to advertise would have an adverse affect on beastfeeding rates and those undecided about their choice in feeding.

Info about formula issues from IBFAN and Baby Milk Action. As BMA say, they're not anti-formula, just anti-irresponsible marketing of formula.

If formula companies were allowed to advertise just imagine what lengthe huge multi million companies would go to to get mothers to bottlefeed. I dread to think bearing in my mind what they have already done in other countries including Sri Lanka. My step grandfather was head of nestles there and my grandma used to visit the women in hospital giving out free samples of formula. Sadly once the mums left hospital not only did they struggle with bf but couldnt afford the formula nor produce it in sterile conditions.

How could voluntary organisations compete with such companies?

Sorry = long post, but I have been thinking about this overnight.

Bf is the best thing for babies - that is the absolute truth. Not just a little bit better, but the very best thing by a wide margin, and in lots of different ways. Yet bf rates are still pathetically low.

Lots of women are put off bf by social pressures (the kind of attitudes that say bf is offensive, will make your boobs sag, none of their friends do it, etc), and because (frankly)in the early days it is often bloody hard.

Given that is the case, then we should encourage as many women as possible to bf for as long as possible so that they and their babies get the significant health benefits.

So, banning advertising is part of a package of things to encourage more bf, incl information campaigns, leaflets, providing support to bf mothers. Lots of this work is done by charities and vol orgs. And I suppose part of this is making formula feeding less acceptable because (really, truly) it is not as good as bf.

Banning advertising works because advertising works. I think some of the comments on here are breathtakingly naive - that women won't be persuaded to formula feed by adverts, that it won't make any difference. This is nonsense - advertising WORKS and that's what companies do it. (and yes I do hear people say, even now, that formula is just as good as breastmilk, or that they wouldn't sell it if it wasn't.)

I am sorry if any of this is offensive to anyone, but just to be clear, it s not about criticising individuals who have chosen not to bf. Everyone has their own reasons, and their choices are no-one else's business. People should have a free choice but they shouldn't be influenced to use formula either, and they should have the full facts.

BUT I think anyone who is offended by the idea of banning formula advertising needs to get a bit of perspective - it's not about YOU after all, it's about the health of ALL babies, and tbh I think anyone who does think it is about them is being the tiniest bit self-obsessed.

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Can you imagine - 9 out of 10 babies prefer Aptimil

when I was trying to get ds off the breast after 8 months Aptamil was the only thing he would take, and I was really glad of it
See no problem with this whatsoever, surely we are intelligent enough to make up our own minds?

I was thinking about this this morning after reading this thread, and I had an unexpected revelation about why I personally find formula advertising red rag to a bull. I realised from reading this thread, that the reason I gave up bf my dd at two weeks, was because I had unconsciously imbibed that insidious message they give, that of course breast is best, but formula is so near to bm, that it doesn't make that much difference really. And because of that subliminal message that it's not best by a mile, just by a negligible amount, some of us give ourselves permission to give up when the going gets tough, when we wouldn't do if we hadn't unconsciously imbibed those messages.

I gave up bf my DD when she was 2 weeks old. It was a decision made on the basis that I was under an appalling amount of stress at the time, the details of which are too boring to go into, but I just felt that with all the other stress I had in my life, I didn't need to put myself through the stress of bf too (and it had taken me 9 weeks to properly establish bf with DS, so I knew damn well how much hell it could be). And the subliminal idea that actually, there wasn't really that much difference, was the deciding factor, I now realise (I hadn't realised that till this morning). If I'd known then what I know now about breastmilk, I wouldn't have given in at 2 weeks. And I gave in because even though i knew the benefits, the subliminal message that I'd grown up with and which is everywhere in society, and which is one we all use to comfort ourselves when we have to give in, that there isn't really that much difference, had really effectively penetrated my consciousness. And I think that's why people jump up and down when they see formula companies trying to get round the advertising and promotion bans. It sounds OTT, but it's part and parcel of that isidious and incredibly powerful message that simply permeates our culture.

And I'm not criticising anyone who bottlefeeds by this post, just trying to give an honest assessment of why formula company advertising is so enraging to some people.

Excellent post harpsichordcarrier!

And you Caligula-so eloquent as always!

(I should be sunning myself on a Turkish beach witho ur friends,eating fantastic food and drinking cold beer. What am I still doing in my flat on my laptop????)