We've deleted the Madeleine McCann thread

[JustineMumsnet]

Because had we deleted all the posts that were worthy of deletion contained within it we would have lost half a thread, and what remained would have made no sense.

We would like to remind folks that Mumsnet's central philosophy is to make parents' lives easier. The McCanns are parents, they haven't been found guilty of anything and they have lost a child. By all means discuss the issues around this tragic case but please don't attack them personally here.
Thanks,
MNHQ

why bother saying "there were two posters whose posts crossed the line"? Do you get a kick out of people wondering which two?

this thread is going to end up as bad as the other one.

I don't recall commenting on you personally

I did call daftpunk a moron though.

stewie, I thought your posts were very thoughtful and reasonable and you were unfairly put upon, like many otheres

But now as you say, you are lumped in cos people will now think ALL posts were out of order

They weren't

why would she get a 'kick' out of anything. I wouldn't want to be lumped in with one (or two) people that crossed the line either. Her points were valid and reasonable and now others can't see them

Stewie I also mentioned a few missing teens and a small boy from the missing persons sight and was told that whilst these were tragic cases one of them was possibly taken by a parent and the others had probably ran away so were not really comparable to the McCann case.

A missing child is a missing child FFS no matter what the age or circumstances fact is that a family is missing a child!!!

I have also been lumped in with the one or 2 posters throwing biased 'facts' around the thread, it's not fair that the thread is'nt there to prove it!

Than again why should their identity be kept when the ones who have'nt done anything are being picked on here.

The difference is this:

A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION

Jade Goody was not part of a criminal investigation. She was a young woman who contracted cancer and used the surrounding publicity to set up funds for her sons.

The dad involved in the sea tragedy was not involved in any criminal investigation. An accident happened, no matter what he was doing at the time, the body of the girl was recovered at the time, there was no criminal matter to pursue.

This case is obviously a criminal matter. A young child has come to some harm. The investigation is still open and ongoing. That is the difference.

As many have said though there was 1 poster (Saphire) who was dead set against the McCanns and threw a few dangerous accusations about!

The other poster (Nancy66) who was out of order was so massively in favour of the McCanns that she would not let anyone else have an opinion without throwing insults at them and this is why it got so heated towards the end.

Those of us who did'nt actually do anything should not be lumped in with them and as for pathetic name calling well... there are no words

Who is doing all this lumping in and picking on?

I haven't memorised the entire thread (unlike some but from what I remember the people who were heavily criticised were the ones who had made the outrageous comments.

Even though I agree with every thing Rhubarb says in essence I've got to point out the slight inaccuracies with the set up in Praia da Luz.
I visited the resort a couple of months before the McCanns and stayed in the apartment next door to the one they were in.
Praia da Luz is not a secure holiday resort, it is a small seaside town.
The apartments are easily accessible from a small alleyway and a main front entrance, no-one would have to scale anything.
The block is visible from the restaurant and as the crow flies no distance at all. In reality you have to walk around a pool, through a building, up the road, down the alley... not so easy.
There were notices/posters/books galore on the problem with theft in the town. you were told very clearly by Mark Warner not to leave any door or security shutter open or unlocked.
Knowing all of this I do find their decision to leave the children hard but we each make our own parenting judgements.
They were obviously happy with this and the consequences were truly unimaginable.
I didn't read the thread yesterday so don't know what was said but it is hard to believe that people here have no compassion for a family who have had their lives ripped apart thanks to one foolish decision.
You are right Rhubarb... there for the grace of god!.....

It is not unusual for there to be deaths on the road in tragic accidents - so they don't make headlines. It doesn't mean that they are not sad. It doesn't make the loss any less for the families involved. It is not so unusual for teenagers to run away or for DC to be abducted by one of their own parents. These stories don't make the headlines so much either. It doesn't mean that they are not sad. It doesn't make the loss any less for the families involved.

It is extremely rare for a small child to vanish into thin air. Madeleine was photogenic. Her parents were good looking, educated, well off, eating with friends at the time. Maybe this has something to do with the glee with which people want to concoct bizarre theories about this missing little girl. The facts are that she vanished that night and none of us know how or why. This is not a soap opera where you can identify the villians from their demeanor, or because they don't behave according to soap opera conventions. It is not a reality TV show where the individuals have offered themselves up for public judgment.

It is a criminal investigation into a missing child. There is no excuse for malicious gossip about it, nor for libel against the real life individuals involved.

Greensneeze - this was posted to me after I asked if it was me who made disgusting comments and was remarked that 'she would not be pset if those who had would leave' (not in those words read back though.)

By onebatmother on Tue 05-May-09 10:17:51
I can't really understand you md.

But yes, I was talking about you and others. Daftpunk was equally without thought.

haveilosttheplot is quite right - it's vile, this regular invocation of some kind of sainted status as a 'mum' to cover an obsessive, salacious picking-over of this horror.

The thing is, see - this event is not part of a soap opera. The contemplation of it requires an entirely different set of responses and standards of humanity, but you and others seem unable to grasp that.

So basically that is making out that I said something against the McCanns which I never did! I am not going to sit here and be accused of something I did'nt do!.

adding more fluffiness to thread :)

Thank you ingles, I was under the impression that the Mark Warner site was secure. Certainly the window was a story up was it not? The door had been secured as I believe and the shutter pulled down at the window, which is why her mother was so adament she'd been taken, when she saw the damage done to the shutter.

A foolish decision yes, but I cannot judge because I've made plenty myself and got away with it. Imagine how I would feel if one of the decisions I had made had tragic consequences I found myself being discussed on Mumsnet in this way. I would be beside myself, I truly would. And no punishment would amount to the kind I would inflict upon myself.

But I am lucky, my children have come to no harm despite mine and my dh's often foolish decisions. We are incredibly lucky that we can now look back and criticise each other for our mistakes, that we can shake our heads in wonder at the stupidity of each other. Now they are just stories to relate, lessons learnt. But my heart goes out to that family, because I can so easily put myself in their shoes.

well don't sit there then !

Rhubarb you are right in many ways but ingles is right the appartment would not have involved scaling anything and the window was untouched.the patio doors were unlocked.

I think this one should be deleted too

From Mrs McCann "I looked through the apartment and I went back to the children's room and then saw the curtains moving towards me so it became clear the window shutters were wide open."

She also stated that the windows were closed, the shutters were down and the curtains were always drawn in the children's bedroom throughout their stay in Portugal.

But the details are irrelevant. They made a decision. It's so easy to do when everyone else is doing the same. You let your guard down on holiday anyway and there is this feeling that if everyone else is doing it, it must be ok. I know I've done stupid things just because others were doing them too.

But yes, this thread is in danger of becoming just another one of those threads where details are pored over and theories bandied about.

The wrong type of person will once again be attracted and the whole thread will once more ignite.

But I shall state again, that Kate McCann could well have been me. I've done very similar things that I would not do now. It's easy to look back with hindsight isn't it? Just remember that the little girl is still missing, they are a family still grieving and whatever you think of their decision that night, they are paying for it now. They are human beings who do not deserve to be pulled apart - they've already had their hearts ripped out. Let's leave them in peace.

Rhubarb - so agree with you. I was eventually riled into commenting on this thread because of the insinuation that it was only "ghastly people" like the McCanns who would ever have left their children to sleep when they went to dinner. As I stated I and no doubt thousands of other ghastly people/holiday makers over the years have done exactly as they did without it ever entering their heads that they were doing anything wrong or taking a risk. If this hadn't happened, no doubt, thousands more families would be doing the same/taking the same risk as we speak. This case must have changed the policies of so many holiday firms and the behaviour of so many families. What I couldn't/can't understand is the personal vitriole against a family who must still be going through hell. Mumsnet right in shutting down thread.

Oh stop it, noddy, please.

While I personally agree with Rhubarb, I'm worried that this thread will now go the way of the last.

I was one of the lumpers-in and I absolutely stand by that. I think idle speculation about this subject - the reduction of the probable murder of a child to the level of a soap opera plot - is repulsive, whether or not a particular poster makes libelous accusations.

They are wiling away an hour or two, and using as their entertainment the (probably brutal, probably horific) death of a toddler. If you can't see that there is something troubling in that fact then..

This is over and above teh (no-brainer) 'no evidence for a trial, innocent until proven guilty' argument which various posters have tirelessly pointed out.

the thing I don't understand is some peoples assertion that the McCanns got away lightly because they were middle class professionals. Hence the need to put the boot in at any possible occasion, because the person is really performing a public service and making sure they suffer enough

Really?!

My memory of the events were that they were publically pilloried and libelled in the national media and supermarket shopping queues and dinner parties across the country. And they were investigated by social services.

I don't see how anyone can interpret that as somehow getting off lightly.

yeah alright greensneeze, you don't have to call me a moron at every given opportunity.

I didn't call you a moron again, I was just sort of owning up that I did actually say something I shouldn't on that thread so was not all lily-white