Miscarriage guidelines - fabulous - but...

[hunkermunker]

mumsnet.com/miscarriagecodeofpractice.html

..will you be putting together some breastfeeding support ones?

No QV. I'm stating my opinion.

On hunker, yes. Jolly nice of you to pop along and do that. Very helpful of you.

There wasn't a need to turn this thread into a FF v BF debate, which I think is what Hunker got upset about. It was about asking for guidelines for BF support, anyone else can start a thread asking the same for FF support or any other support they want.

But has it turned into a BF v FF arguement? I do believe that there should be equal amounts of support, advce and information for all expectant and new mums on both methods of feeding, and right now there is not.

And I do think that MN can probably only deal with one thing at a time regards such guidelines, etc. We don;t want them becoming all mingled, and if too many at once - no longer important. So why not concentrate on this one first and see how it goes. I do thing it is an issue requiring more attention and in greater need that feeding advice right now - so let's concentrate on it and see if it is a successful approach first.

Then Mn can move onto the next agenda.

I couldnt disagree more hula. I, and clearly many others feel that something that has a huge impact on both a mother and her baby's health and wellbeing both now and in their futures is of great importance.

Just because miscarriage and bereavement isnt on my radar right now, doesnt mean I think it's less important, which is why I'm pretty that you can dismiss something that causes more admissions to hospital in an infants life than anything else, just because it's not on your radar.

It is not a bf vs ff debate!

What on earth is wrong with giving information to both types of feeders?

God I now understand what is mean by bf nazis

only think about what you want
don't think there are any other possibilities
stick your fingers in your ears and go lalalalala and nasty horrid bottles of formula will go away

etc

I WAS NOT SUGGESTING THAT HUNKER'S SUGGESTION THAT THERE SHOULD BE GUIDELINES FOR BREASTFEEDING WERE IN ANY WAY WRONG
in fact if you bother to read my posts I am all in favour of it OBVIOUSLY

This seemed to me to be a thread started to say "well done on the miscarriage support, now what about other things"

I didn't realise (stoooopid me) that hunker was a one-agenda type person

Well I beg your pardon but there are other things that deserve attention, as this thread shows there is little info about bottlefeeding out there

Surely it is all about supporting mothers and some have to breastfeed as much as it bothers you - some can't do it at all, some find it too hard etc

That's pretty low, CD.

hunker said that bottlefeeding support would be incorporated into it, and later that it was a necessary aspect of information that mothers require. She didn't say anything against "nasty" formula or bottles either. I think you are projecting your own 'issues' there.

I did actually use formula for DD so I'm well aware of the need for information and in no way biased against formula use - my DD needed it. But poor information from HCP's didnt interfere with my use of it - I had to use it so muddled through.

I think you are spectacularly missing the point that hunker is making that a "code of practice" (in the same way that those who suffer miscarriage/bereavement have had a set of minimum requirements of care set out on here) is required for all women to be able to refer to in order that they get proper, uniform and adequate support so that their breastfeeding isnt undermined and ultimately sabotaged by poorly equipped HCPs. You don't get bottlefeeding sabotaged in the same way. Surely you can see the difference?

I really dont get why you are making snidey comments and getting personal.

and excuse me VVV - it wasn't me that first raised the issue of support for bottlefeeding - so NERRRRR

"But poor information from HCP's didnt interfere with my use of it - I had to use it so muddled through. "

So you muddled through, as do 1000's of other parents, sadly most don't muddle through as easily as others do - we just don't hear about as apparently all that FFers have to do is follow the instructions on the side of the tin.

Are you my therapist vvv?
I don't think you actually know anything about me or my "issues" so I think you might refrain from commenting personally as you seem to find it offensive if you feel I am doing it about someone else

I think hunker can come on and respond to me as she sees fit, I'm sure she doesnt' need you to do it for her.

You have clearly NOT read my posts which say that obviously breastfeeding is best and that it should be promoted.

I suggest you go and read them all before you say I am "spectacularly" missing the point

Excerpts below in case you can't be arsed to scroll down...

"FWIW I think that better education about bottle feeding would make more people likely to breastfeed.

If they realised what a FAFF bottle feeding is in comparison to breast feeding, if they realised that in fact they would have to get up in teh night, go downstairs, warm the bottle (while baby screams in frenzy, awakening itself to a degree where it won't go back to sleep for bloody ages) rather than just grabbing baby and breastfeeding at the first peep, don't you think they might have second thoughts??"

"Why can't they just tell the truth

Tell people what you have to do to bottle feed

IE
you have to sterilise
it is a mare when you go out and a faff
you have to get up in the night as in my scenario below
it is expensive
etc etc

All at the same time as showing people HOW to actually go about doing the above (ie what equipment to buy, how to sterilise, what to do when out/in the night, how to choose formula...

Having first talked about breastfeeding, hopefully people will think "OMG bottle feeding sounds like a nightmare" and will breast feed

AND - (Added bonus) - those of us who really truly can't breastfeed will have been given the info we need.

Win win situation

(clearly the msg should also be BREASTFEED IF YOU CAN)"

No CD, i'm not your therapist. If I was, I'd expect to be paid handsomely for it .

Look, I'm not here to get into a slanging match, but I don't particularly like the personal comments being made about hunker - they just arent necessary and just cheapen the 'debate' tbh. And since hunker is such a lovely lady I feel obliged to speak up and defend such a lovely lady who is here because she wants to do good things. You've seen her blog, right?

Using comments like "b/feeding nazi" is really low - surely you can see that? And as someone who is purporting to support b/feeding - you ought to know that saying such things are offensive on so many levels - and not just to b/feeders. We've had this discussion on MN a bazillion times anyway.

This is a non-starter really and is going round in circles so i'll leave it here I think. TBH, I've had a shitey day and need a thread with fluffy white clouds and pictures of David Tennant on it [verbal diarrhoea]]

ahem

indeed VVV (and FWIW I think Hunker is lovely, we just happen to clash far too frequently on these threads - and I've posted on her website, and she's going to come and see me for the day in the summer (I hope )

I have never had a problem with hunker

She did immediately jump down my throat on this thread though and get all burning martyr oh woe is me I am so put upon and I think if she wants to continue to discuss this she can do so. Just because you know her personally and think she is the bollix doesn't mean that she is always 100% right about everything I'm afraid

I just can't see why there can't be info for everyone and that is all I have said if you can be bothered to read what I ahve posted
but obv you are now feeling all fragile and have to leave as you have had a howwid day.

Well so be it

I will away to bed too

miscarriage guidelines for what happens when your baby dies in your womb (or is dangerously living in your fallopian tubes/ovaries) v. how you feed it.

thread juxtaposition, you gotta love it.

MmmHmm

I'd just like to point some things out.

My daughter was born at 31 weeks, I wasn't able to pump enough milk for her supply till she was 14 days old. I was in hospital being woken by the MWs twice a night and pumped through the day. In the mean time she was given formula.

When she came out of hospital she stopped gaining weight and had to be given more formula. In fact in one week she was given so much formula she gained over 1lb (yes pound not ounce) and we were never able to reestablish exclusive breastfeeding, she had formula until she was weaned when food took over that side.

Yes I'm still feeding her now, but don't ever for one minute think it's because I had it easy.

I am not anti-FF. I am not a BFing Nazi. And I never needed anyone to tell me how to FF her.

well done you
some of us sadly have NO option

so you knew instinctively how to make up formula, how to store it, which one to choose, what best to do when out??

Tinker - I'm sorry you had such a difficult time with your DD.

However, I'm very glad that you managedd to get the quantities, teats, formula choice etc right without any help. It's not the same for everyone else. Just like some people either are incredibly lucky and take to BFing like a duck takes to water, or have excellent support to get them there, others need support..

wow look there is a really good mental health guide too now

Ouch. You really are crabby CD!

and in fact if you look at this page about feeding there is a link to a site with lots of advice and FAQs here

crabby?
for posting links to other guides?

you are maaaaaaaaad woman!