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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Miscarriage guidelines - fabulous - but...

165 replies

hunkermunker · 24/06/2008 14:59

mumsnet.com/miscarriagecodeofpractice.html

..will you be putting together some breastfeeding support ones?

OP posts:
TinkerbellesMum · 24/06/2008 17:58

Just want to say, before I read the rest of this thread.

YAY!!!! THANK YOU for including Antiphospholipid Syndrome in there!

lulumama · 24/06/2008 18:01

it is called 'breastfeeding matters' by maureen minchin

lots of interesting stuff about the politics of breastfeeding too

lulumama · 24/06/2008 18:02

fair enough FAQ i am not doubting you or disputing what you are saying.

TinkerbellesMum · 24/06/2008 18:04

Just want to say, before I read the rest of this thread.

YAY!!!! THANK YOU for including Antiphospholipid Syndrome in there!

littlelapin · 24/06/2008 18:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SirDigbyChickenCaesar · 24/06/2008 18:07

FAQ - re: Failure to thrive

I truly truly don't believe that doctors these day know that much about BF babies. They are so used FF babies and how they put on weight that they say that some BF babies are FTT when they aren't.

just another reason why we need more education and support for BF.

TinkerbellesMum · 24/06/2008 18:10

Considering that less than 2% of women genuinely can't (IE they don't have the milk) if BF support was better then there wouldn't be the need to teach women about bottlefeeding. Breastfeeding is not a "no brainer" clearly or more women would do it and less would say they didn't have enough milk. It takes far more education to help someone breastfeed than it does to show them how to bottlefeed. After all, the instructions come on the side of the packet, last time I checked there wasn't anything written on the side of my boob!

I've been taught on my peer supporters course to give support to women who want to give a bottle and to make sure they are following the packet.

Aitch · 24/06/2008 18:14

i SO tire of that 2% figure tbh. although of course i've also heard 5% bandied about. is there actual proper research to back it up?

Aitch · 24/06/2008 18:15

and there is very little info on the side of the pack, and what there is is impractical and sends women off in the direction of less safe methods.

FAQ · 24/06/2008 18:16

"make sure they're following the packet" - lol sorry that does rather make me smile, I rather wish it was easy as that.

To me (having both BF and FF) that's like saying "just put the baby on the breast" (and expecting all to be well)

"BF support was better then there wouldn't be the need to teach women about bottlefeeding."

But some women want to bottlefeed, or when they go back to work find that they're unable to express enough EBM so choose to give FF.

Mind you I suppose if we went back to teh day when the woman was automatically tied to the sink then there would be no need to worry about that

MNHQ
JustineMumsnet · 24/06/2008 18:24

We definitely plan to put some breastfeeding support/advice on the site over the next few months - and we'll be giving you a shout for help with that (especially you HM!)
When we've done that we should definitely see if we can get it promoted in hospitals etc. Good idea.

Aitch · 24/06/2008 18:26

justine have you seen the suggestion to change the miscarrieage bearavement thread to a pregnancy loss one or pg loss/bereavement one? seems more inclusive.

Aitch · 24/06/2008 18:26

not htread, sorry, topic.

TinkerbellesMum · 24/06/2008 18:46

Yes, there are countries who have that breastfeeding rate. The 2% though does include children with problems that prevent them from feeding, which is why I always say less than 2% of women don't produce enough milk.

I'm not paid by the NHS and there are 12 of us to cover the Heart of Birmingham area so spending time covering bottles takes us away from women who need breastfeeding support. I'm sure if the need arose that it wouldn't be "read the packet it tells everything you need to know", we have been told to explain what to do, following the packet and our boss will also refer back to the HV.

I have never been tied to the sink, it has nothing to do with how you feed a child.

FAQ · 24/06/2008 19:07

sorry Tinker - I disagree - not all women are fortunate enough to be able to express enough milk to feed their DC while they're at work.

Also even if you do read the tin it's not very clear that the amounts/frequency age/weight are only a rough estimate. I have met women who were wondering either why their DC wasn't finishing any of their bottles, or on the opposite side worried that their DC was always hungry and always finished all their bottles - because they thought that those amounts were what they "should" be having.......

The packet also doesn't tell you things such as - some babies will drink a bit of their bottle, have a short break (often several minutes) and then finish their bottle. While others down it in one go like it's the last bottle they're ever going to have

TinkerbellesMum · 24/06/2008 19:17

I really don't care what's on a packet to honest. I don't give formula and I'm not a "formula buddy". I would like for every woman to have support in whatever they choose to do, but other than cheering someone on, I'm not it so I can't get that worked up about what's on a packet. It's just not my unpaid as it is job!

I don't know much about maternity leave being too ill to work myself, but I was under the impression it was a minimum of 6 months, I didn't realise they were returning to work before then. I'm not sure why you are telling me about it because I never brought it up. Please don't get into expressing with me because I have had to do it having had a baby at 31 weeks and I will never tell anyone it is easy, want to get into a compare notes on this?

CountessDracula · 24/06/2008 19:18

oh hunker stop being such a burning martyr
no-one jumped on you

I simply said I thought it would be good to have bottle feeding support too

If i had said it would be good to have support code of practice for people with something else you wouldn't ahve batted an eyelid

And you yoursefl said "I knew someone would say that"
So don't go all bleeding martyrish on us ffs

TinkerbellesMum · 24/06/2008 19:18

And other than in reply to your message, I've never mentioned expressing so not sure how you can disagree on my opinions of expressing when you don't actually know what they are!

VeniVidiVickiQV · 24/06/2008 20:29

Steady on CD. She's not being a martyr at all. I think that HCP's let you down in terms of advice wrt to support for feeding your baby. Most definitely. But, you are very much in the minority and when it comes down to it - this is more a matter of choice than no choice. Informed choice at that. Which is why I think that bringing in of bottlefeeding issues have muddied the waters somewhat.

I dont particularly understand why there is an argument discussion to be had on this - breastfeeding guidelines are sorely needed. Maybe bottlefeeding guidelines are needed - but not at the expense of good b/feeding advice. So I dont see why, FAQ in particular, feels they need to argue the case for bottlefeeding. If it's so desperately needed - by all means start your own campaign for it. I'm all for more information. Hell, I'll sign my name to it. But, I dont see the point in pissing all over a thread started to ask for breastfeeding guidelines just to prove that bottlefeeding advice is as appropriate/required. What a bizarre thing to do!

As an aside, call it a pondering, if you will, I dont actually think that there are many informed women who choose not to b/feed. I think it's also important to ask why women who dont want to b/feed or why they feel their bodies cannot be relied upon to continue to sustain their baby's life. Interesting.

JeremyVile · 24/06/2008 20:40

Well, I wasn't expecting this when I opened the thread

Hunker, I think you are being far too tyrannical on the subject.

CD wasn't contradicting or heckling you, she was just adding her own thoughts.

Hulababy · 24/06/2008 20:42

TBH at the moment, and from my experience and that of friends I think there is a greater need for support for those who have suffered miscarriages, than there is for breastfeeding support.

I found that there was, and still appears to be, lots of advice and information available to new and expectant mums regarding breastfeeding.

Howver there appears to be virtually nothing available to those going through, or ho have recently been through, a miscarry.

Hulababy · 24/06/2008 20:43

And have to agree with CD - there is little out there to give any information in bottle feedinging - either for or against. nd certainly nothing at all coming from health professionals.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 24/06/2008 20:50

It doesnt have to be either/or though hula. No-one is suggesting otherwise. I'm 110% behind miscarriage guidelines. But b/feeding support is equally dire and needs highlighting. To ask for that shouldnt cause the reaction it has and result in Hunker being called a "martyr" and "tyrannical" fgs.

JeremyVile · 24/06/2008 20:55

QV - It wasn't Hunkers question that caused the reaction.
Hunker spat the dummy because other posters dared to say things she would rather they didn't for whatever reason.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 24/06/2008 20:58

So have you just come on here to put hunker's dummy back in then?

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