Why are coded fundraising threads allowed outside the charities noticeboard?

[QuestionFromTheBack]

I used the title suggested by your AI

In the rules and guidelines, it says:

We only allow fundraising for registered charities to be promoted on our Talk boards - and these threads should be posted on the charities noticeboard. This is in the interest of protecting our users as we aren't able to vouch for or endorse individuals running crowdfunding campaigns or anything along those lines.

So why are these "gardening" topics allowed where people raise money for anti-trans "projects" and the people who run them?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5521049-april-gardening

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5535124-may-gardening

The obvious code words etc are ways of trying to circumvent the rules. Are mumsnet ok with fundraising, as long as it against trans people?

.

I'm equally bemused about the regular advertising for the Omaze house draw.

Hi @QuestionFromTheBack

Thanks for raising this.

Our fundraising rules apply across the site. We don’t allow Talk threads to be used to promote crowdfunding, personal fundraising or fundraising for non-registered charity projects.

Having said that, it’s difficult for us to remove posts simply because posters may be alluding to a cause if they aren’t directly linking to a fundraiser, asking for money, or telling people how to donate.

We’ll take a look at the threads you’ve linked. If there are specific posts that link to fundraising, ask for donations, or direct users to where they can donate, please report those directly and we’ll review them.

These quotes obviously alluding to fundraising are from the posts I linked:

1) Harriet Hayes is appealing to the High Court his case against the volunteers of the English Blackball Pool Federation. If they have a new fundraiser I havent found it.

2)There is still a garden at support my fight for freedom of expression and citizen journalism but I don’t know if plants are still needed to fight a possible prosecution for stalking.

3. Sara Morrison’s Discrimination case against Belfast Film Festival finished but the funding target was not met.

4. Sex Matters were granted a judicial review on Hampstead ponds
   -increased target for this and donations can be gift aided

There is also a pattern of referring to these fundraising efforts as gardening to circumvent site policy:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4797024-please-explain-to-this-texan-what-gardening-is

"It's a specific 'code' in the feminism forums.It's against MN rules to ask for money through online fundraising, so links will be deleted.So 'gardening' is fundraising, hence the metaphors around digging and carrots.If you know the names of the people seeking financial help for court cases etc, you can find them and donate if you so wish. "
On the same thread, others said:

"It's trying to get round MN's rules on fundraising / soliciting donations with euphemisms like "gardening", "digging", "spades out" instead of "donate to" etc.
I don't know why it isn't clamped down on harder (same goes for other begging threads)."

Someone else replied:

"They don't need 'clamping down on' as they're not breaking the rules. The rule is against links to fundraising pages, which are too easy for someone to click without due consideration. The 'gardening' etc gives info so that people know there's a cause they might be interested in and can then actively find the relevant site themselves."

So it is obvious to both the users and presumably the staff that this is used solely by GC members to get around mumsnet fundraising rules and the staff at Mumsnet are presumably in full support of this particular cause thus why they openly allow it to continue.

So I ask again, considering that the members openly discuss their "gardening" being a barely covert way to fundraise for GC causes, are Mumsnet okay with fundraising as long is it against trans people?

Can you explain why these posts can remain despite obviously pointing towards people towards places to raise funds?

So to be clear, you don’t want there to be any discussion whatsoever about anything pro-women which might be fund-raising? No mention of the cases just in case someone googles the names involved and decides to donate?

If someone started a thread that was “gardening” for a different cause with the same style, that could also stand. Mumsnet can’t be censoring threads that provide information to people who want to find out about stuff.

Gardening threads for any cause that have no links and no direct appeals should be allowed to stand because they provide information.

@QuestionFromTheBack thanks for the links

They're court cases asking organisations to uphold the law on women, not anti-trans. It's very unpleasant and disingenuous to do so just because you don't like them personally.

I’ve seen many posts here regarding causes and fund raising activities, sometimes for registered charities sometimes lower key fund raisers for charitable causes. Usually raising awareness, reporting the issues and encouraging people to go seek the info for themselves.
I’m pretty sure I’ve talked about a couple of brain cancer fund raisers I’m close to on here in much the same way - raising awareness of the issues and encouraging people to look for their local fundraisers if they wish to support.

I also promote small independent women run businesses and non profits on the annual Christmas thread recommending small independents.

I find the idea that this is “begging” risible. If I posted “I have no leccy, no money and my 15 disabled children are starving under this bridge, DM me to donate to my preferred cause” you might have a case. As it is, the balance of “we can raise awareness but not the actual link” seems a reasonable compromise since obviously MN cannot check every small local fundraiser but each of us can check them out locally for our areas.

You're right, it's incredibly tedious. Imagine having to go to an employment tribunal or court to have to uphold your legal right to have a single sex toilet or changing room or not be discriminated against at work or sacked - and having to pay for it as well.

Very simply, people arent directly linking the fundraisers and are just commenting on their existence. Bit like the Charlie's army/alfies army ones that were knocking about at the time.

If you dont like people using their brains too to find them then thats unfortunate, for you.

You can talk about people who are raising funds - you can't link to the fundraisers or go round the site touting your own need for funds (apart from on the charities board). This is because years ago we used to be overrun with posts like "my son is climbing everest, please everyone click this link to donate" or whatever so they were all corralled into one place and you can't link directly elsewhere. But you can say "my son is climbing everest, I'm so proud of him, he's fundraising for X charity" that's fine as long as there is no link. People who are motivated to donate can go off and find the link themselves.

If you censored people who said in the course of a thread "oh there's a crowdfunder for X cause, I can't link it but if you search you'll find it" that would be an impossible task for MNHQ.

I think the balance they've struck is about right.

Interesting that you only just joined and your first post was to complain about PRO-WOMENS (not 'anti-trans) fundraising.

Very mean-spirited.

Yes it’s very mean spirited to turn up out of the blue and twist pro-woman into “anti-trans” isn’t it?

Irrespective of the topic/cause people are allowed to discuss things. They are allowed to discuss raising money or charities.

I could say I'm doing a run for a charity to fund raise for cancer research. I could even say which charity.

what I couldn't do is link to my donation page.

(sadly I'm not able to)

what is your problem with that exactly?

Thank you for making me aware of these fundraisers. I am going to go and donate!!

I was not aware of and had never clicked on the threads you mention. I dont tend to go on those boards really. They sound more like chats that occasionally mention fundraising to me though.

N.b. these causes aren't "anti-trans" they are about protecting biological women