what on earht are you all doing wih tis suiceide stuff

[FluffyMummy123]

Message withdrawn

jac - agree absolutely.

Foxinsocks:, erm, I do know. Not only am I getting on a bit (in my 40s) so have had more time to have a variety of experiences, but for some reason I have always attracted the more volatile as friends. SO I have done my share of patching up cuts and making the judgement call as to whether or not to dial 999. It isn't fun at the time and whether or not black humour becomes the best response later depends on the individuals concerned and the outcome. But I stand by what I said, that we all do the best we can and most of the time there's an OK conclusion, and when the end result is that someone dies: well people did their best and can do no more. And we are all, ultimately, going to die one day.

JAC: Frankly, I think if that's going to be done then it needs to be a team of people (you can't expect one individual to do it 24/7) with professional experience or at least some sort of training, and they should be paid and given professional support.
ANd I don;t think that's either feasible for MN, nor do I think (and I don't mean this harshly) that it is justified - basically as there is not going to be enough, er, work for such a team of people to merit their wages.

The tone of this thread made me so angry at the start and I'm so glad to find there have now been so many posts with a more compassionate attitude since then. It has reaffirmed my faith in MN as a caring community.

I just hope that the debate that's happening here, and some of the more heartless comments, don't make people feel that MN is not the place where they can get support in their parenting. As I read this thread I was browsing the others in active convos and the very first one I read was a mum saying she was so low that she even felt suicidal because of the behaviour of her toddler. She got some fantastic practical responses to help her. This is surely what MN, at core, is for.

But she could easily have read this thread before posting and felt that some people would rather she took her problems elsewhere.

tiredlady-i very much doubt there is a psychiatrist on call 24/7 where i live,as there is only one psychiatrist in the town and i dont think he does that many hours.his waiting list has been closed for a long time as it was more than a 3 year wait to see him.

i have atually told my CPN about MN and another site i use,and 'post on internet forum' is one of the options in my relapse prevention plan.

'debating on MN' is also down as a potential trigger

I meant that I agreed with JAC's post of 20:36, not the subsequent one which I think would be impossible (if laudable)

well good for you that you can deal with it that way madamez.

Divastrop
If someone presented at their A+E either acutely suicidal or acutely psychotic they would be seen by a psychiatrist. They may have to wait, especially if they are in the middle of nowhere and the dr has to travel, but they would be seen.

I don't think 'I've been there and felt this way' type posts will hinder the OP in anyway, but I do worry about people that post this type if response if they aren't going to be able to cope with the worst.

I always post my experiences on these threads and say I got help, sorted myself out, but tbh, if it happened, I'd think, damn, I can't believe she killed herself, what a shame, poor dcs etc, and then move on.

I worry others may take that guilt upon themselves and it could crate a vicious circle of people feeling suicidal making themselves feel worse by trying to 'help' when in reality, one message on computer screen isn't going to stop anyone.

I also think though we need to reply, total non-response bar 'call someone' could be enough to make someone already suicidal looking for that hand to grasp to stop them going over the cliff could think 'fine, fuck you, you've proved it's not worth me staying' and do the deed, whereas IMO if they are posting, they are still unsure.

(Sorry, rambling)

Not always tiredlady. Maybe that's how it should work, but it certainly doesn't always. Have had hugely bad experiences of this (not me being suicidal) and the system doesn't always work and really good help can be hard to find.

However, if someone is acutely ill then mn is only really a point for information as to where to go next. I do find it uncomfortable when it becomes a spectacle. And yes it is all about ME

Justa you may be good at barn fighting but your thomas know-hoo is waaaay slow. Yes, I'm a perky little engine.

'If someone presented at their A+E either acutely suicidal or acutely psychotic they would be seen by a psychiatrist. They may have to wait, especially if they are in the middle of nowhere and the dr has to travel, but they would be seen. '

it would be good if that really happened,but it doesnt,not where i live,and its not even the middle of nowhere.

This is a tough one. I can see sense in both sides. Certainly we should refer all to appropriate professional help.

I'd hate to think that folk were thinking we were turning the other cheek by doing so.

I'm quite sensitive to this sort of thing anyway which is why I'll post something acknowledging or re-affirming other posts but try not to get involved. Having had a "final" conversation with someone (without realising it) who was then sucessful in their suicide attempt a few days later, I'm acutely aware of how much guilt can be felt at saying the wrong thing, or feeling like you've not said the right thing.

Sorry for the delay in responding to this thread. We're going to be posting our thoughts and policies on this early next week.
Cheers,
MNHQ

Glad to hear MNHQ are on to it.

I've been thinking about this thread so much since yesterday, arguing the pros and cons of online, unprofessional help.

Both sides have valid points but whatever is decided, to abruptly delete a post with any mention of severe depression and/or suicidal thoughts is cruel, inhuman and imo, unthinkable. Especially on a website designed for mothers - as mums, we're all extremely vulnerable to self-doubt, fatigue, 'blues', 'burn-out', full-blown depression, etc., etc. Who's going to decide which poster is actually at risk of topping themselves?

Mental illness is still a taboo subject - in RL & anywhere else, despite all vociferous claims to the contrary. You're less likely to risk rejection online when confessing to a mental breakdown than you would be if you confessed to a friend, family member, neighbor, colleague or other medical non-professional. The usual reaction of those who wouldn't know depression if it smacked them in the face is "pull yourself together!"

Sorry for the rant.

There is doubt, I think - in the tiniest ways - in the minds of those who are successful in suicide. It's only when one loses functionality that it becomes certain in mind and reality. Even though one may have decided against life, one doesn't know anything about death in order to 'choose' it. So it is really a case of leaving things to fate. The space between not wanting to live and not knowing what death will be like. That's the doubt. It is not doubt about having nothing left to live for or doubt about whether you really will be unmissed. That is not the doubt that makes you post or call someone,etc.It's fear of death itself yet knowing that life is unbearable.

I'm sure there are people who feign suicidal feelings in order to gain attention but they are equally in need themselves.

Just to add, I am horrified at the judgments being made by people regarding the mindset of the suicidal.How can any of us really know. Ever talked to a dead person? Ever been someone else? We are individuals with unique ways of thinking and responding.

To say that the people who come out the other side never really were genuinely suicidal is ridiculous.

And expat, nearly every recent post has mentioned substance abuse. I'm not sure why that is such a crucial point. I have never been drunk or under the influence of drugs when posting but the way you are coming across seems to imply that it is likely that most people will be half cut.

Also,why is the fact that some previously suicidal people here have never posted when feeling this way supposed to be representative of intent?

i personally dont think that people who are in despair should be stopped from coming on here for help.For some it is their only lifeline and i for one am happy to at least talk to someone if i think it will help.God forbid that mn gets so uncaring that vulnerable people are turned away,or feel they have no-where to turn.No we are not experts and im sure that most of us would urge people to get proffessional help,but when they come to mn in depair ,at least they are opening up to someone albeit someone they dont know.