what on earht are you all doing wih tis suiceide stuff

[FluffyMummy123]

Message withdrawn

Spicemonster - you have been on a forum where people have posted suicide threads and SOME (so, more than 1) have followed through and killed themselves?

Really? What forum would that be?

There is no expectation when you post. You hope,but don't expect beyond one'snormal expectation when you post anything that people might have something to say.

Okay,so the nature of the post rather forces a response but there is no conscious consideration of that fact a the point of posting - whether that be a good bad or selfish thing.

I'm not sure that MNHQ could realistically send the police around to every house when a suicide threat was posted. That wouldn't work, would it? People would end up posting suicide threats just as a cry for help, or would register under a false name to cause trouble. And MNHQ shouldn't be responsible to decide when a threat is 'real' or not. And what would constitute a threat?

Janni I agree with your last post. The night I took my OD two friends came over - the one who rushed round and barged through my front door after I sent a rather innocuous text to who somehow realised that something was wrong, and another friend who came and drove me up to the hosptal (and stayed with me until 3am in the morning).

My BF (the one who came round and found me throwing up with empty pill packets and a bottle of brandy next to me) is the "softly softly" type, the other friend some would probably describe as quite harsh. She was very blunt in the car when she drove me up to A&E. Both approaches helped me.

Thanks FAQ. That is interesting, about some posters knowing your history. You are right of course, if you are a well known and prolific poster that other mners are much more ready to step up and offer support.

What concerns me I suppose is the unkown newbies (or namechangers) who might get the more classic mn 'up front, tell it how it is, and how I see it' (aka "oh ffs") response or, more worryingly hardly any posts at all.

I got a "oh ffs" response about frozen sandwiches (ffs), but because I was having a really really really bad week/day, I flounced. silly twunt that I was.

I don't think it's that relevant JV.

It has never (as far as I know) been the case that someone has posted a thread saying they're going to kill themselves and then they do that day. It happened some time later.

I was just trying to make the point (rather clumsily), that it is inevitable on a board like this, where people discuss everything from the size of their fanjo lips to chicken soup recipes, that suicide is going to come up. I don't think you can say that people can't discuss it and I think it's dreadful to suggest that threads are deleted from the off.

The other board does have a list of sources of support for people in crisis and I think that it would be a good idea to have that on MN - just to be able to cut and paste it into a thread might be useful.

tbh as I say a lot of the anti camp's arguements are used against the samaritans existing at all

it is this whole "get prfessional help" thing

well yes, dp

but I don't think many people are turning down professional help and posting on here

if people are posting on here, there is a reason why they are not phoning the samaritans and a reason why they are not talking to, say, a CPN.

Cutting this avenue of help off solves nothing imo

agree it would be suprisingly hard to say the wrong thing, there is a real wisdom of crowds thing on MN

MP brings up a salient point. Because on the thread in question there were quite a few posts about reporting to MNHQ in order to track down the OP and send the cops round and how to suss out who the OP was IRL and the like.

Well, as you all know, this puts a lot of responsibility on MNHQ, particulary as many of these posts are late at night/early in the morning.

So perhaps a disclaimer that HQ can't be held responsible for trying to track down these OPs might be helpful?

And then Califrau also pointed out that some posters will come on here and then not get the professional help they need.

That has happened, and indeed some posters who have started these types of threads have said they are still going to take steps to get that help, but they haven't yet.

Well, that's not good, either, because it's like people who stop taking antibiotics or medications when tehy start to feel better.

I think what everyone has to accept is that you/we are not actually responsible for another person's suicide/refraining from suicide whether we know them online or in real life. You cannot prevent a person who is utterly determined to die (and in some ways, maybe you shouldn't, maybe it's not up to anyone else). Yes, sometimes the right kind words (or even unkind words) or actions make a difference, sometimes they don't. But there is a limit to how much anyone is responsible for anyone else and can control their behaviour: you can only really control your own behaviour.
Don't forget that sometimes people tell their friends or relatives that they are suicidal, and sometimes the friends or relatives treat the behaviour as attention-seeking, or get angry, or do something that, while not meant maliciously, is the wrong thing at the wrong time. If you find the suicide threads upset you, stay off them: if you find other people's responses ghoulish or distasteful, post your own helpful response and stay off, remember that (with the exception of posters who know each other in RL and might have to pile in) it's not really your problem and you can back off and walk away.

I am quite shocked at this thread to be honest.

There are always going to be threads that some people are going to be uncomfortable with for various reasons, through own past experiences or other, or because the topic is one they fear, or they just dont think they can contribute.

Shouldnt it simply be "If you dont like the thread, ignore it" ?
Why does this not apply now?

I can name many different type of threads that make me uncomfortable, but it helps some to post on them, and they do receive support. Should we pull the plug on that because it makes some posters uncomfortable? The mere thought is in my opinion ridiculous.

Mumsnet self moderates. So, lets self moderate on this too and simply say, "ignore it if you dont want to read it" As with anything else. NObody compels you to read anything.

I remember a few months back a poster was buuuuued off the site for posting that people should stop posting about their problems because it made her uncomfortable. Isnt this the same thing?

I don't think it should be mumsnet's problem though madamez, should it? As I said, it's a call for mumsnet HQ.

this isn't only about being uncomfortable, it's about being appropriate

FIS are you new to the internet or something? ANY site which gets any kind of feeling of 'community' will have the occasional palaver like this, and people just have to deal with it either by participating, not participating, or leaving the site altogether if that's how they feel. Are you one of the people who whines that threads which mention sex in detail are inappropriate? Do you think that people shouldn't be allowed to discuss politics on a site that's about 'parenting'?
The bottom line really is, if you don't like a particular thread --go fuck yourself don't look at it. It's not your problem. Switch off your computer and go and do something else.

But why is it a mumsnet problem any more than domestic violence, miscarriage, bereavement, serious illness is?

err no I've been around for years actually

don't be so fucking rude - you can go fuck yourself if you can't bear the fact that other posters can have an opinion.

and there have been LOADS of these threads recently

it's not a case of switching off, it's a case of whether we want to encourage these sort of attention seeking threads to exist and I think NO. It's whether people on here SHOULD be dealing with suicidal people. Whether they are going to say the right things. Whether they ar egoing to become self fulfilling. I am perfectly entitled to feel that way I'm afraid, whether you like it or not.

But Foxinsocks, you have a CHOICE. YOU dont have to deal with it if you dont have to.

MN is as known for its outrageousness as its appropriateness.

I would imagine that most people who post in desperation on here are already used to MN, feel comfortable here and use it as a sounding board because they trust the good sense they will receive.

There truly is a collective wisdom here which comes to the fore in moments of crisis.

oh I don't care about me. I NEVER post on those threads because I am perfectly aware that I am not the right person to deal with them.

FIS, I'm glad you've not had to deal with depression yourself but you just don't really sound like you know what you're talking about and you're posting a lot.

And if no one were allowed to start an 'attention seeking thread', MN would pretty soon expire...

Thinkstoomuch, that is extremely rude. You don't have to have suffered from depression to have an opinion on this issue.

how do you know I haven't?

what on earth is your post supposed to mean?

I asked dh - a psychologist by training - about this. He was unequivocally for closing the thread and, if feasible, tracing the poster 'behind the scenes'. He said that the potential repercussions for both people who get involved trying to help and other people lurking (for example) who might also be on the brink are too huge. I have a lot of sympathy for that viewpoint, but also for the arguments of those who are saying the opposite - FIS is right that MN is not really the appropriate place in these kinds of situations - but people will undoutedly turn to MN in these situations, and that then does have to be responded to. MN is great at support, but this sort of situation, in my feeling, does cross a line - but I am not sure 'refer and delete' is always the best option or useful to have as a blanket policy.

I think that Pruni, further down, made the most salient point of all. Plus a lot needs to be done (in society in general, I mean) to remove stigma and make mental health/depression self-awareness as normal as self-awareness around physical health.

Well, I've had depression and still think MNHQ needs to do something to make sure no one gets held responsible if someone does in fact harm themselves.

Or at least try to word a disclaimer that it's not HQ's responsibility to track down the OP in the middle of the night and call the police or that.

I don't know about having a choice, tbh. If I am just off to bed and someone posts a 'is anyone around? I can't go on' message, it does not sit easily with me to leave them to it - I am involved as soon as I read that title. I have had OCD, which often revolves around guilt and fear of inaction, and that sort of situation has the potential to play havoc with my thought patterns.