what on earht are you all doing wih tis suiceide stuff

[FluffyMummy123]

Message withdrawn

if I hadn't posted when I did I either wouldn't be here now discussing this with you, or I would have scars on my body from harming myself.

FAQ, Objectivity - if you feel that you are still here because of posts you recieved here, you must be able to see what a horrific situation could occur if the right posts aren't forthcomng?

That responsibility just can't be fair.

FAQ, I think that's dangerous though. That you rely on an internet forum to stop you doing that.

I'm not attacking you personally but do you see what I mean? And as I said to objectivity, I'm glad you are around to still talk about this sort of thing.

oops

I thiknk you could argue the same about the relationships section for eg foxy

people could end up divorced if they get the wrong advice - well I think I have seen that happen a few times tbh! I wouldn't ditch the relationships section because of it, though

yeah but Franny, we're talking life or death here. It's a different thing.

FAQ & Objectivity, so if the Samaritans, or NHS direct or some other organisation with trained people at the other end had an instant, one on one internet forum, would you have used that rather than mn?

but FIS, if we bar suicide threads we may also have people's deaths to deal with. we just won't know about it

No one has to respond. I don't respond because I think people posting here usually want other people who have been through similar to respond.

I am sure that there are a number of repeat namechanging suicide OPs, just as there are with probably every helpline in the land. I wouldn't want all access to anyone shut down for that reason. I mean, among the regulars I am sure there are some unexpected truckers and 15 yo boys....

divorce is hardly a walk in the park fox
they're both serious businesses
I don't think you can ban certain topics on the grounds that we might get it wrong

well if we bar them or at least cut them off very quickly, then maybe people will be discouraged from posting them in the first place

it's too dangerous filly (I think). It's too much to expect that everyone will post the right thing or say the right words.

FIS - you're not reading my posts properly.

I turned to MN first as I felt I had no-where else to turn. Because I turned to MN I was able to tell RL friends what was happening, in turn they got me to the GP. 2 weeks after that I took an OD, it was my RL friends I turned to (via text) when I suddenly had that small % of doubt which objectivity mentions above. I wouldn't had done that had I not used MN in the weeks leading up to it.

After I came out of hospital I continued to use MN, mostly late at night when I felt unable to call my friends to talk to them (I know most of my RL friends sleep much earlier than I do and I couldn't bear the thought of waking them up for me - I wasn't worth that).

After I'd had my first appointment with the CMHT which a MN'er (who has become a very close friend in the last 2 months) came to with me and she told me, in front of the social worker that I could call at any time of day or night I started to feel a little stronger and had more belief in the fact that my RL friends were (and still are) there for me.

However, having said that I'm still extremely concious that they all have their own lifes and own problems to deal with, if I call them then they feel obliged to talk to me.

If I post online then I know (as I often do it myself) that people responding to my thread have the option simply to close the thread and ignore.

And WRT "if you feel that you are still here because of posts you recieved here, you must be able to see what a horrific situation could occur if the right posts aren't forthcomng?"

Yes and no. I would feel terrible if knew someone on MN was suffering from depression but was unable to post (as their only outlet) to say they were feeling suicidal/considering self harm and we later found out that they'd committed suicide or harmed themself. I think it's swings and roundabouts.

Do we want to feel guilty that perhaps the "wrong" thing was said and that the OP still followed through

or

Do we want to feel guilty that someone killed themself because they knew that "couldn't" post on here?

it's people's lives Franny. Of course I know divorce is a serious business as are health problems and allergies and everything.

But we are talking about mothers here KILLING themselves. Taking their own life. I think that is about as serious as it gets.

I'm not disagreeing with you on that fox
but we draw different conclusions from it

I am not comfortable with these threads, partly for reasons I have stated
but I don't think referring and deleting is answer, also for reasons I have stated

Slubber - I don't honestly know if I would have or not. Talking "now" then yes I think I may well have done.

However, at the time I'm not sure I would have done. Posting on MN I think I knew that at least some people would have an idea of my "history" and what had been happening in my life recently - (as I can't keep my gob shut - even on MN ) and so I wouldn't have had to explain that as those events had a direct impact on how I was feeling at the time IYKWIM.

I do understand what you are saying FAQ, I do. And it's not the guilt - it's the fact that this isn't necessarily the right place.

So maybe it worked for you. Maybe it doesn't work for the next person. Maybe you are stronger than you think. Maybe you shouldnt' have been able to turn to the internet. Maybe if mumsnet wasn't here, you might have found another, more proactive way of dealing with it. Maybe it's because people KNOW you and can spot you and had already wanted to be friends with you.

I can see why and how mumsnet CAN work in this situation but it doesn't ALWAYS work like this and these threads DO have a tendency to breed (sorry if that offends dittany, but they do) and it's incredibly unhealthy.

I agree about the breeding bit and the gawping bit and the breathless excitement bit, btw
but possibly the good outweighs the bad

"it's swings and roundabouts"

So, we save a couple here, lose a couple there, it all evens out in the end?

NO, no, no - no-one should have this responsibility laid at their door just for going on a bloody forum. It is so so wrong.

Foxinsocks, I'm really struggling to see what the alternative you are proposing would do. The people who have been suicidal say it wouldn't work, the people who have been Samaritans say it wouldn't work. Lots of people are really not sure what the mechanism pulling the thread of a desperate person would do to help them. I'm not, though I do understand and support your logic of 'we might not be helping' etc..

Message withdrawn

I am on another board and there have been people there who have posted suicide threads. Some have gone on to kill themselves, others haven't. I have never felt responsible for either saving or not saving someone's life - I would like to think that most posters are aware that the decision to end one's life (or not) is solely in the hands of the individual. There have never been any legal ramifications for that board when someone has chosen to end their life.

I view MN as a community. If you are a part of a community, I think it's perfectly valid to turn to it in times of crisis, whatever that crisis may be. If you don't want to help someone, walk away. As others have said, it is hugely obvious what the thread is about at the outset in all the cases I've read. Others may feel able to contribute and make a difference to the way the OP is feeling.

For many people, the net is a way of talking to people when there is no one they feel they can turn to in RL. And that means that people are going to talk about the uncomfortable stuff.

Interestingly, the other board I'm on does not let you namechange without prior permission of the mods. If you want to avoid trolls starting fake suicide threads, that might be a way to go. I've often thought the ability to namechange on MN is a bit of an achilles heel tbh.

I know I wouldn't have found another way of dealing with it. Before the shit of the last 5 months even my closest RL friends had no idea what exactly what was going on in my life.

In fact when my BF went away for a few days in January she came back with fridge magnet for me as a "joke" (as a few days earlier I'd been "moaning" about H) with "When I married Mr Right I didn't realise his first name was Always".......in the few days she'd been away H and I had made the decision to split - she was genuinely shocked that things were as bad as that.

Now it's different, not brilliant, but better than it was, I'm more able to tell my RL friends how I'm feeling - instead of making everything a "joke".......

You would be surprised, Foxinsocks, how hard it is to say the wrong thing, unless you are a total psychopath and there aren't many of those on here. Someone saying 'go on then, top yourself', would IMMEDIATELY be jumped on by ten posters. A bit of kindness, sympathy, support, personal experience, suggestions of avenues to explore - MN is fantastic at that.

well I'm not a psychiatrist/psychologist so following my own advice, I'm in no position to say.

I hope mumsnet take professional advice and come to some sort of decision.

My personal opinion is that it's wrong to let those threads run. Whether mumsnet stops them and finds a way of contacting that person or comes up with a blanket policy, I don't know. Personally, I'd like to see some sort of mental health advice posted (whether it's numbers or whatever...) and then the thread pulled once contact has been made or whatever. Don't know.

I think some people are coming to the conclusion that I'm not very compassionate. I promise you, that could not be further from the truth, I just think this is the wrong place and the capacity for the 'wrong' advice being given out when we are dealing with people's LIVES, is just too great.

no I mean it's swings and roundabouts in terms of whether the risk of losing someone because they don't post (as their post will be deleted PDQ) is any greater a risk than risking losing them if they do post and someone says the "wrong" thing.