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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

what on earht are you all doing wih tis suiceide stuff

833 replies

FluffyMummy123 · 30/05/2008 16:01

Message withdrawn

OP posts:
Slubberdegullion · 30/05/2008 20:00

DaddyJ, are you trying to say that mn is better than the professionals?

If you are then I completely completely disagree with you.

Does mn help? yes
Does mn support people who are considering suicide - yes?

Can mn ever possibly be a substitute for a one on one interaction with another human being who is trained in listening and in being able to differentiate those who are seeking a listening ear and those who are on the point of taking their own lives, who has support mechanisms of their own to deal with any fall out, who has resources (in terms of medical treatment...and yes this includes pharamceutical treatment) and contact with other support services, who have medical knowledge in different psychatric diagnosis and up to date treatments.

I will repeat my (dh's) earlier point that if someone is seriously considering suicide then the most important thing to do is to keep them talking. mn does this - that is great.

I think it is a big leap to go from that to mn is better than the samaritans or mental health services.

foxinsocks · 30/05/2008 20:00

then they can email the Samaritans Janni!

you cannot guarantee that supportive people will be around when they post and that people will say the RIGHT thing. How can you guarantee that.

Nagapie · 30/05/2008 20:02

You are asking others to collude with murder.... it is not only illegal but the act is so self-centred.....

There is a distinction between depression and pychosis....

objectivity · 30/05/2008 20:08

Slubber, that is a great post and pretty much sums up my opinion. I am more than aware that my next steps are to go and get the counselling that will help and the latter end of discussion on my thread of yesterday has given me a lot of enthusiasm and insight in so doing. So, that's two positives out of a suicide thread. The other one would be that I am here to read what's been posted there today.

FIS I don't entirely disagree with your pov but I would hope thatyou might appreciate how much calling the Samaritans or going to A&E or being arsed to go over things with a GP when you've done so before and still ended up in the shit,seems like a rubbish option.

For me it was cigarette, mumsnet, drop son off, come home to pills. Because of the mumsnet bit in that plan I had a chat to son's father because I felt a bit less sure after being on here and then the last bit didn't happen.

It could have been, cigarette, drop son off, feel lonely as hell, pills.

soapbox · 30/05/2008 20:09

I'm coming late to this thread. My view is that I do not have strong feelings about the threads themselves and can see from Objectivity's very eloquent posts, how they might help in extreme circumstances.

I dislike the car crash mentality of them - the excitement and drama. If people stopped long enough to think about what they are posting they might consider that suicide is a bleak act, and that the excitement is so terribly misplaced.

My main issue with the threads, however, is that in helping one individual, the lives of many others are potentially impacted in a horribly negative way. In the days and weeks following one of these threads one can almost chart the collective despair that pervades those at the very edge of being able to deal with it. A train of threads ensues, each one with its own tale of misery, despair and bleak hopelessness. It is almost as if the effort taken to support one member sucks the life out of many, many others. The most vulnerable of people in our midst are those that seem to end up bearing the brunt.

I think many of the works written about those making serious suicide attempts suggests that people in that situation would go out of their way to avoid being talked out of their death. On the other hand those making a cry for help type bid, come to rely on someone 'saving' them. It's a risky business relying on a talk board for that kind of action - a more interesting thread somewhere on the board or a less than exciting title and ... well help might never get to you.

It is complex and it is difficult to meet the needs of all of the vulnerable people who post here, but on balance I think for the greater good, these threads should be deleted and MNHQ should deal with them off board (involving known 'friends' of the OP as appropriate).

FAQ · 30/05/2008 20:11

foxinsocks - the Samaritans own website say "f you email we try our hardest to get back to you within 24 hours."

24hrs - like that's going to help someone now/in the next hours or so (as even in the middle of the night I know from experience you rarely wait more than an hour - usually much quicker - for a reply to a thread).

Fillyjonk · 30/05/2008 20:11

look, what do you think HAPPENS if you stop letting suicidal people post?

do you think they say "oh gosh I'd better call the samaritans instead?"

of course not. If someone was up to calling, or emailing, the samaritans, they wouldn't be spilling their guts to a bunch of internet sprites.

When people are that desperate they need as many avenues open to them as possible. MN is, for some people, the best first step to getting help, but to others it is the only step they can take.

Brushing it under the carpet, because it can get messy or tasteless or whatever, is not really on imo. We are a community, sometimes people need help, this is life.

(btw, advicelines incl the samaritans are also ofen criticised for diverting people from Proper Help, ie underfunded psychiatric services/drugs)

milkgoddessmakesthefinestmilk · 30/05/2008 20:13

i think pulling the thread would be extremely unkind, we all come on here for help advice and support.
yes get MNHQ and the police etc involved but i think for the posters considering self harm would not benefit from having the thread deleted at all.
also i this this thread cod was pretty nasty to start esp right now.

Pruners · 30/05/2008 20:14

Message withdrawn

Slubberdegullion · 30/05/2008 20:15

I agree Pruners.

Fillyjonk · 30/05/2008 20:16

yes I agree milkg

I bloody count my blessings that I have never been desperate enough to need an internet forum to talk me out of suicide.

But if my life ever skews off course enough that that feels like my only option, I would like it to be there really.

foxinsocks · 30/05/2008 20:16

well objectivity, I am glad you are still here and I can see what you mean and you know, cigarettes are bad for your health (hides fags) but I STILL think it would be better to post a thread saying 'can everyone give me their experience of how counselling has helped them' rather than the 'I am going to top myself' because it evokes a totally different response. You got to the counselling bit at the end of the thread because you had climbed down from where you were and some kind and supportive people had hung around. Those kind and supportive people MIGHT not always be here and it can' tbe guaranteed that they are!

Filly, it is not because it is messy or tasteless, it is because this is not necessarily the right place!

These are life and death situations in some cases and you cannot say that the people that respond are going to say the RIGHT things. They may make it worse and then the forum will have someone's death to deal with.

FAQ · 30/05/2008 20:16

oh - and to add to my first post on this thread about my useless GP - after I'd been in hopsital after taking the OD (just two weeks after seeing the GP) and had been referred to the CMHT I had a phonecall from the Dr.s surgery asking me to make my "follow-up" appointment - so I did. When I saw her then she said "oh I didn't realise things were that bad" (FGS she asked if I'd had suicidal thoughts - I said yes! - and then said see you in 4 weeks!).

JeremyVile · 30/05/2008 20:17

So those of you who have posted on MN when your intention is to commit suicide - why did you choose MN and not The Samaritans?
So far, it's been said - don't want to trouble the samaritans - Why is it 'troubling' the samaritans (who are there solely for this purpose) but MN is a viable option?
Or because there are 'connotations' - how are the connotations different on here?

objectivity · 30/05/2008 20:17

feel free to start by posting here then

Fillyjonk · 30/05/2008 20:17

and yes we should be pruni, absolutely

iirc there is 1 mental health professional for every 10 people referred

Its bloody appalling. It is such a waste of people lives

soapbox · 30/05/2008 20:19

I think if it was 'policy' to pull the thread though, people would know what to expect and it therefore is not a personal dig at them.

MNHQ could post on the thread then lock it - advising the OP that they were now going to contact them by email.

I think a lot depends on how the thread is pulled and that support is given, just not publicly.

FAQ · 30/05/2008 20:19

"These are life and death situations in some cases and you cannot say that the people that respond are going to say the RIGHT things."

Equally if someone posts in a desperate place in their own mind and then has their thread deleted almost immediately it could be a death situation.

FrannyandZooey · 30/05/2008 20:20

Very public suicide attempts / explorations of suicidal feelings almost always lead to 'copycat' behaviour in the population that witnessed them

for that reason alone it would really be better if a suicidal poster could be put in touch with someone who could PRIVATELY attempt to support them

but for numerous reasons as pointed out on the thread, this is not always possible

one thing that people may not have taken into account is that extremely needy long term depressives may have already been limited in their access to the Samaritans and other agencies

mental health agencies and charities are as we know not exactly well funded or copiously staffed and sometimes people have been through the entire system many times and are virtually deemed unhelpable

it's not enough to simply say "phone Samaritans" or "phone your GP"
those people may have already said "you know we can't help you any more"

of course MNers are extremely unlikely to be able to help in those situations either! but to refer and delete is not practical in terms of always providing support at the time the poster is asking for it

foxinsocks · 30/05/2008 20:21

yes I agree with that.

Mental Health Services are not sexy so hardly any politicians take on the campaign for funding. It's something our MP has vocally campaigned for and both dh and I have added our support to try and keep mental health funding in the public eye.

I think it's something that should be taught at school (good mental health practices,...like regular exercise etc. etc., mental health awareness)

morningpaper · 30/05/2008 20:22

Local branches of Mind are also good repositories of information - in fact I took two long calls from extremely distressed people today and I'm just the finance mangaer . There are usually staff around who can listen or who are available for drop-ins.

FAQ · 30/05/2008 20:22

"So those of you who have posted on MN when your intention is to commit suicide - why did you choose MN and not The Samaritans?"

Because I couldn't pick up the phone and call. I have enough trouble trying to make "normal" day to day phone calls (doctors, calling for quotes, information etc etc) when I'm feeling good - I would never have been able to pick up the phone and ring when I was feeling suicidal.

Even when I contact my RL friends at those lowest points it was via text - I couldn't bare to pick up the phone and actually ring.

foxinsocks · 30/05/2008 20:24

yes but FAQ, having a policy would discouarge people from posting stuff like that

we cannot make that call, we can't, just based on someone's postings on the internet (what sort of support they need) so I believe it's better to have a policy where the posts are stopped and the thread referred (how that would work I don't know)

foxinsocks · 30/05/2008 20:25

your link doesn't work objectivity

objectivity · 30/05/2008 20:27

Well it's because I can only describe it as though your mind splits. Maybe a 80/20 split?? You are 80 percent sure you have had enough.20 percent is about the ramifications. If the ratio was the other way round you might post/(lurk) more generally about therapy- I have when I've felt on top of things more and did in fact do so in the days preceding. When the split swings the other way,you still have the 20 percent bit that makes you even bother posting but you are posting with a mindset thatis saying 'I'm very certain I want to go, but I'mjust kindof checking in with reality here'.

I hope that sort of makes sense. If you were 100 percent sure then clearly you wouldn't be posting, you'd be pill popping already or tying a noose. But 80 percent can become 100 pretty quick and I can't imagine not having the pit stop I did here.

As for why not calling the Samaritans, apart from connotations:

Bad previous experience
Reallife voice
Having to make a phonecall (big deal for many people)
Having to explain
Having to talk to somebody when their voice is odd and you don't like them because of the image it conjures up
Feeling guilty because they sound so earnest
To real
Not anonymous enough
Being intensely involved for a whole convo - not being ableto dip in and out and reflect
Having to try and explain yourself

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