Update from MNHQ addressing the recent images posted on the site

[JustineMumsnet]

Hi all,
There have been a number of threads discussing what happened re the posting of CSA images on site and so I want to be absolutely clear: we would never seek to shut down reasonable criticism and we're taking on board all the feedback and will be carefully considering how we can improve our procedures and moderation to prevent this happening again.

As a temporary measure, we have suspended all image posting and will soon be implementing AI filters to flag illegal/disturbing images before they appear on the site. We’re also liaising with external specialists to see if there are any further tools we can employ to help us prevent this from happening again in the future. We reported it to the police first thing the morning after the attack and we have a follow up meeting with them tomorrow.

It's also pretty clear from what we can see behind the scenes that there is an ongoing, coordinated effort from trolls to further inflame these discussions, and cause as much disruption as possible. We are taking steps to remove bad faith actors, but we know this can be frustrating for those who just want to express your views about what happened. If you come across any posts that seem designed to stir up more conflict rather than contribute constructively, please do report them - your reports really help us to act swiftly. Many thanks for your patience while we work to sort this out.

Why on earth would I think she is my friend? I have never so much as exchanged a word with her. We all know MN is a multi-million pound business but it is no Facebook or Twitter.

We know we know. Justice isn't our friend and mnhq have failed. Or rather, a nasty perve posted vile images that were removed.

You do realise both those statements can be (and are) true?

I'd prefer it was dealt with sufficiently robustly to eradicate the chance of it ever happening again so far as is technically possible.

Saw this on another site which I thought should be repeated here...

"ongoing, co-ordinated effort to further inflame the conversation on (the) site around the issue and to cause as much disruption as possible".

Tell you what might have also inflamed the conversation and caused disruption

• No clearly signposted moderator comment/source of truth as soon as office hours resumed - nothing was pinged out via the notification function either
• Taking down threads without pointing towards central source of truth (because it didn't exist)
• Initially only making official responses buried in comments on the one thread allowed to remain, in an area of the site that you have to go looking for
• Because it was part of the normal thoroughfare of the thread, people could respond to the comments - people got snarky and/or responded completely reasonably if strongly - these responses were then removed, pissing people off further, making them comment again
• Randomly responding to the odd response to mod comment and snarking at them
• Only posting an actual official response at midday today, a full 36 hours after the event, and shit-stirring with the 'there are trolls amongst us' line.

We know we know. Justice isn't our friend and mnhq have failed. Or rather, a nasty perve posted vile images that were removed.

Not really 'nasty perv' posting 'vile images' but a crime with posting CSA images

They have fixed the problem. Now if it happens again then regroup and recommence the constant 'NW should be paid!' Protests.

They are intending to fix the problem which is good but nothing wrong with paying staff.

Im sorry to harp on about the unpaid work aspect but I don’t see why the discussion that’s being had should wait, until next time?

if NW is unimportant to MN then get rid and if not pay, Justine herself is a massive supporter of people getting compensation for their work or their output
This is from an article from Justine about why they’re sueing Open AI, it talks multiple times about fair compensation.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/sep/28/mumsnet-ai-google-openai-publishing-copyright

“Allowing the AI companies to simply steal content isn’t just enormously unfair to publishers who see no reward for the work they put in, or the risks they take, it’s also an existential threat to them (and ultimately counterproductive).”

allowing NW to work for free and see no reward in exchange for the work they put in and the risks they take, is wrong. Yes some other sites do use free labour, but lots pay, I’ve worked as a moderator before, paid mods exist, corporations should pay for labour even if it’s in the middle of the night.

and no I’m not a troll or someone who wants the downfall of mumsnet

I used to work for Crisp as a moderator - for a few months. It was really stressful. We had to follow strict procedures especially if there were CSAI or immediate threat to life etc and it had to be escalated and dealt with immediately whatever time of day to the manager on call and the post removed immediately.

I suppose I was just shocked that images of this nature were not dealt with immediately by a senior member of staff.

So you aren't going to answer the question then?

Hindsight is a great thing. While I agree the issue of volunteer overnight mods has been raised before by users, I don't recall anyone raising the issue of image filtering before this event.

When posts are auto-hidden, the response tends to be 'why did this happen to my perfectly innocent post?' (I know, I have done it!) rather than 'what excellent inbuilt filters Mumsnet has, blocking my post just to be on the safe side'.

So I don't think we, as users, can throw too many stones here. I'm glad overall security and procedures are now being reviewed.

@JustineMumsnet if the review/assessment/process does not include hiring at least one paid moderator for every overnight you haven’t learnt a thing here. Sorry to be blunt but the current NW system is just about suitable for a hobby Facebook group, not an income generating and increasingly international website. The living wage is what - £13.15/h in London? This is the time to put your hand in your pocket.

"We would never seek to stop you talking about it ... but by the way if anybody comes across too gobby in their criticism of it, you might get banned,

posters are part of the MN family and too much criticism of the Mumsnet corporation is trolling.

Hardly an answer is it?

Istg some people act as if Big Jussers is running it out of the basement of her ran-down house or something...

If it acts like a troll and targets abuse at women …

You're not really posting in good faith are you @Wetherspoons ?

Do you want to help improve the site, or do you just want to bring down MN?

R2 just had it on their news bulletin.

No one does that.

Big Jussers. I mean seriously. Yes, once again, awful images were posted <and removed> but do you not think your 'Big Jussers' comments diminishes the problem as if you find it all one big joke? .

Thank you for the update.

I'm concerned as to why there are volunteers propping up what is essentially a profit making website. Volunteers for a charity, yes, but for a business that takes in a good sum of money? I didn't know this was how sites operated regarding employees.

At 11pm? Or when images of CSA were posted for the second time?
Or in the morning when paid staff started work? Or later, after managing to reach a senior member of staff?

Since Justine is off spinning for the press, can you maybe confirm that there is an escalation policy that the unpaid volunteers can access in these situations? They NEED to be able to take appropriate action.

Mumsnet is a relatively big site at this point with many advertisements. Why is there not somebody employed to monitor the site at night

Apologies I see HQ have posted a number of other comments since the one I just replied to, and may have already answered my question (and the several other unanswered questions from users).

I'll come back to the thread later. Right now, I'm getting more and more annoyed with every 'official' comment, which isn't productive.

What makes me very uncomfortable, on a site that markets itself as "by parents for parents" is that this was initially minimised as trolling, and that now, discussion about this is being intentionally hidden from active, shut down across threads and people raising concerns are at risk of being labelled "bad actors" and that other users are essentially being requested to dob them in.

That, and the lack of any mention of support for the volunteers that were exposed to the barrage of abuse images (not some nasty little naughty troll) over that night.

These weren't some kind of silly little troll images - they were highly illegal images of children being abused - and I'm horrified at the attempts to minimise it and shut down the expression of valid concerns over this. Not to mention the use of volunteer mods to prop up a financially very profitable website... but then they also used to rely on interns a lot as well - and that ended well with one going rogue didn't it? The consistent playing fast and loose with user data, the defaulting to "whoops, nasty people" type responses when things go wrong and now the attempt to silence a community largely of mothers - who are inevitably going to react incredibly strongly to images of children being abused... it's not a good look.

Exactly.

’Messed up big time’ would be one way of describing it.

A number of posters have clearly been profoundly impacted by the terrible images they saw - they are entitled to ask what safeguards are being implemented so there can never be a repeat.

Surely you can understand that?