Advertising Israeli Birthright

[TinyYellow]

I was upset to see Mumsnet advertising Isreal’s birthright tours.

Birthright is a Zionist practice that directly contributes to the illegal expansion of Israeli settlements in the Palestinian West Bank.

Why is MN ok with advertising something that could not only be seen as alienating to a minority ethnic group but that also supports international law being broken?

Jewish people dont need to have had their ancestors live in Israel, Israel was set up to provide a Jewish state, given the history of anti semitism in the world, moreso after the second war

I dont agree with the later land grabs and illegal settlements but the notion of a Jewish state is a different thing.

There was no such thing as Palestinian land or Israeli Jewish land, the whole region had long been occupied since the Romans at least by wave after wave of different authorities.

Palestinians who lost their land and businesses and had families uprooted were robbed of this I agree and as I say the later further land grabs I consider illegal, but ultimately trips for young Jewish people around the world to visit Israel is hardly controversial.

And Im still getting ads for something about Russian propaganda, but I suppose that is ok.

@soupfiend yes the region had been occupied by various empires over centuries, but the suggestion that there wasn’t a Palestinian land known by that name with people living there identifying as Palestinians is simply untrue. We have umpteen sources naming the area as Palestine/Palastina and variants going back to the Bronze Age. Being occupied doesn’t make it not a land with a people. It wasn’t just spare and even under occupation the people there had land and property that had been in their families for many generations. They are the indigenous people by any definition.

The Birthright trips perpetuate propaganda, on TikTok for one you can find various videos of Jewish young people talking about their experiences of Birthright and how it supports the untruths that Israel is founded on

Oh goody, another anti-Jewish thread.

Why can’t the antisemites go somewhere else?

crockofshite

Are you at all concerned about the murderous gangsters who beheaded, burnt alive, raped, tortured, terrorised, murdered and kidnapped innocent children, teens, men and women in their homes and at the festival?“

I was horrified by those events. I’m horrified about the onslaught on Gaza. It’s quite possible to be both. Everyone ought to be, surely?

@FinalCeleryScheme being anti Zionism isn’t anti Jewish, and the huge amount of anti Zionism Jews should illustrate that.

What a silly attempt to shut down debate. Where do you see British people arguing for the British Empire? It’s possible to deplore something your own nation has also done, especially things done before you were born and able to protest it

Yawn

Helpful contribution. Anything actually pertinent to add?

The Commonwealth and economic benefits, the unionists, the spoils in Births museums, Northern Ireland.... all
appear fairly contemporary to anyone affected by them.

The lack of self awareness is astonishing.

Sorry but you are an anti semite and an ignorant one at that.

@Teddleshon sorry that you’re not more knowledgable about the history of Palestine/Isreal and therefore able to have an actually critical view

Ironic considering your tiresome phrase... People think they're so clever spouting this crap.

Fully aware of all these things thanks. All complex issues, particularly where within the NI and the commonwealth there are people who want the relationship to end and people who want it to continue. Nowhere in those places are we bombing people.

@BuffaloCauliflower I am actually very knowledgable about the region and its history thanks. My views are based on actual facts.

Oh here we go again. This has been explained several trillion times but people don't listen or learn because they would rather focus on any opportunity to bash Jews. Although yes of course the codeword is now 'zionists'.

1. The Romans renamed it Palaestina after they evicted Judeans (Jews). It was named that after the Philistines, who were Greek invaders to the coastal and Gaza area. Much later than the Bronze Age you claim.

2. After the Romans, it was invaded by Muslim Arabs

3. Modern Palestinians largely have a mix of Arab and Egyptian DNA. Arabs are from Arabia, Egyptians are from Egypt

4. The population was very small before the 20th century. A mixture of different groups. Druzim, Christians, Bedouin, Jews (those who had managed to remain), and Muslim Arabs

5. From the 20th century on, the population grew. Pogroms against Jews in Russia and Eastern Europe, plus other political factors led a renewed drive for the Jewish self determining homeland that Jews had been praying for since the Romans evicted them.

6. As the Jewish population grew, so did the Arab population....people came there for work. (I do agree that even if your family have only been somewhere for 50-80 years that's enough to feel attached to a place)

7. Yes some Arabs had been there for many generations. So had some Jews, and some Druzim, and some Christians.

8. There are numerous archaeological sources showing ancient Jewish occupancy. Including the Temple which the Al Aqsa mosque is built on top of. Which in itself tends to prove that it was Arab Muslim groups who took over Jewish land, not the other way round. Unless you think Jews managed to sneak in and tunnel under the mosque to build an entire temple under it. (I'm sure somewhere out there someone will have a conspiracy theory saying that.)

9. In any group you get fringe and extreme elements. Are there people who are Zionists who are politically motivated and extremist? Yes. But Zionism is a basic tenet of Judaism, not a political or settler movement.
   When people say "Oh I'm not against Jews, I'm just against zionists", it's exactly the same as saying "I'm not against black people, I'm just against people with extra melanin".

9).Tik tok: Oh, you saw it on Tik Tok so it must be true? That's basically everything that is wrong with the world. If you seriously believe what you see posted on Tik Tok as being representative of everyone of a particular group, then there is no hope.

10. All social media has algorithms that show you more and more of what you search for. An echo chamber. So Tik Tok is showing you what you want to see to back up your beliefs.

11. When people gloss over all of the atrocities and genuine famines and genocides happening in the world and focus their attention solely on what Israel is doing, that is criticism beyond what is directed at anywhere else and that is underpinned by antisemitism. It didn't start with the current war, this has been going on for decades whilst ignoring everything else.

12. Every single thread like this makes more Jewish people realise how much we need each other and need Israel as a safe place because there is so much hate and lies out there and nobody has any interest in the truth. So well done on your part in increasing zionistic sentiment.

@Towerofsong you have more patience than me!

I've been on this trip. And weirdly haven't received this ad so wondering what you are googling to receive it.

There was nothing during this trip about claiming the land etc. It was about celebrating Judaism and learning more about the various cultures that live in Israel. We visited the western wall, we had tea in a druze community and learnt about their culture. We spent the night with the Bedouins and learnt about their culture. We climbed massada and learnt about the massacres there. We had talks about judasim and learnt more about the religion. It's Aimed at Jews who are less connected to their faith and it really helps instill a sense of Jewish identity. Not once was it mentioned we had a right to this or any other land.

But obviously you'd have a problem regardless. You know nothing about the trip.

Btw approx 95% of Jews are Zionists and unfortunately people like you and the increase it antisemitism over the last nine months has only increased most Jews connection to Israel and they are realising why it's existence is necessary.

Hi OP,

Thanks for flagging. This isn't our advertisement. It's a google ad choices advert, which means it's targeted at individuals. Please can you get the URL to where the advert takes you? We can then locate it and take a look.

Hi all,

Just to let you know, we've blocked this advert now.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMIA_bombing

Let me leave this here.

30 years ago today the Iran backed Hizbullah blew up a Jewish community centre in Buenos Aires. The motive? Argentina had reneged on a nuclear deal with Iran.

"We don't like what the Argentinian government have done, so the answer is to blow up Jews in Argentina." And people wonder why we need a Jewish state.

Hi Lily,

Could you explain the reasoning & legalities behind this decision please?

Will you also be deleting links to other birthright programs on this thread or are you exclusively targeting Israel, the world's only Jewish state?

Thanks

It might not be controversial to you. But imagine being a Palestinian with actual photographic evidence of their family home in Haifa or Jerusalem, that was in their family until 1948. The physical keys. The land deeds. And never ever being allowed to go there or to live there.

While Jews of Eastern European background who live in New York could move there tomorrow. And go on trips called "birthright" cementing their ownership of this land over the Palestinians who actually originated from there.

I think you might find it controversial then.

And do you feel the same about the 800k Jews who were expelled from their homes in Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Morocco and other Arab countries. Should we stop advertising trips to those countries in case the Jews who lived in those homes before see it?