Advertising Israeli Birthright

[TinyYellow]

I was upset to see Mumsnet advertising Isreal’s birthright tours.

Birthright is a Zionist practice that directly contributes to the illegal expansion of Israeli settlements in the Palestinian West Bank.

Why is MN ok with advertising something that could not only be seen as alienating to a minority ethnic group but that also supports international law being broken?

@Louloulouenna ,

Judaism is complex, especially the race/religion part, I am ethnically Ashkenazi Jewish, though not religious. But that is complete separate genetically from Sephardi and other strands of Judaism. Complicating this still further is conversion and marrying out. Judaism is less and less a race.

The concept of another country being my ‘birthright’ does not sit well with me. I would be very uncomfortable with white Anglo Saxons getting preferential uk citizenship to…um…Jews like me.

I do think that contesting Israel’s right to exist is antisemitic, especially if you don’t contest any other modern nation state. I also think it has a right to remain Jewish, uncomfortable though that might become if it ends up with a majority Muslim population. Ultimately, Israel needs to remain a safe haven for Jewish people.

The corollary of this, though, is that Israel has a responsibility to remain a compassionate modern democracy, something Netanyahu and, in particular, his religious racist allies are failing to maintain.

I went to Israel once when I was much younger and, despite recent wars, it was a tolerant and pleasant place where I was treated decently by Arabs as well as Jews (the only place I felt uncomfortable was Mea Shearim, where I could sense distaste for my lack of a kippah and student clothes). I have no desire for a ‘birthright’ tour, especially if it includes the settlements, which IMO are no part of my ‘birthright’.

I don’t understand why it is controversial for Israel to give automatic citizenship to Jews. Leaving aside the religious aspects (which are obviously considerable) there are just 16 million Jews left in the world, their numbers are obviously hugely diminished through genocide and there is just one Jewish country.

Many Muslim countries (there are over 50 in total) require you to be a Muslim before gaining citizenship but obviously with over a billion Muslims in the world it wouldn’t be possible to issue automatic citizenship to all Muslims.

Jews are never going to be given citizenship in a large number of Muslim countries so why is this controversial?

I am so sorry that while my friends in Gaza are literally being killed by Israel for daring to exist, and while my family sits in a country that is far from home in Palestine after being ethnically cleansed by Israel, that I offended you by using the word Zionist to mean supporter of Israel.

I agree. The Jewish community in Yemen was driven out. There was one Jewish man left who recently died. If Israel had driven every Muslim person out until there was one left, there would be rioting on the streets of Britain. Or try publicly practising a different faith in Saudi Arabia. Yet no one cares one jot.

But they’re not being killed for “daring to exist” - it’s the result of a truly horrible war. Started by Hamas, a terrorist group committed ro killing all Jews and obliterating the state of Israel.

Agree, but I take the view its only a matter of time until MN adopt the policies of other social media platforms such as Meta/Facebook who now recognise that the term "Zionist" is used to mean Jews which is used as a pejorative. And these platforms now take action.

Given that 95% of Jews are Zionists, its clearly used by antisemitic individuals as a code word.

About time MN followed suit.

Take a minute to consider what you are comparing.

Verbal insults, and actual dispossession and death.

Antisemitism does, has and continues to lead to the deaths of Jews.

Sorry- how should I describe the state and its supporters which dispossessed my family members? In a way that does not hurt your feelings?

Actually no. I'm not arguing with you guys (and currently I have three telling me that Palestinians suffering isn't as important as Israeli hurt feelings) as you pretend that genocide isn't happening and Palestinians in Gaza had it coming.

There is no Muslim country in the world that awards you citizenship purely on the basis of you being Muslim, nor is there a Muslim homeland, or any birthright.
AFAIK you can be a naturalized citizen of Israel by other means, so it's not the citizenship issue that bothers me, but the Law of Return, when millions of Palestinians have been displaced worldwide, often living in horrendous conditions in refugee camps with no right to return. They might have been born there, lived on the land but have no rights? How is this fair? Obviously the more people that want to move to Israel, the more land is grabbed needed, which results in even worse conditions for the Palestinians.

Did you only get access to world news on 7th October? Please look at the statistics at how many Palestinians have been killed at the hands of Israel spanning decades, long before Hamas even existed. Nobody accepts the "but Hamas" rhetoric anymore. It's because they are Palestinian, and have "dared to exist". The government have said they want to "wipe out their memory", which I understand is the worst curse in Judaism?

@poshsnobtwit but Jews and many other ethnicities who have been driven out of a large number of countries throughout history don’t necessarily have a right of return - why would it be different for Palestinians?

@poshsnobtwit as there are more than 1 billion Muslims in the world obviously no country is going to offer automatic citizenship to Muslims. Particularly as so many Arab countries have made it abundantly clear they won’t be opening their borders to the Gazans.

I agree give it a rest. It's because of people like you stirring up hatred that Jews in UK don't feel safe anymore.

@Louloulouenna do any of these countries have it enshrined in law that a Jewish person or other minority has no right to enter ever again? @Hippyhippybake I'm responding to the posters who (falsely) claim that Muslims have a homeland/birthright to the "so many" Muslim countries. This has got nothing to do with Gaza, so not sure why you are bringing it up.

Edited: FWIW I don't have any objection to a Jewish state, but I do object to any state that is built upon the continuous oppression of those living there. Like @Newbutoldfather I also don't agree that a newcomer who has zero connection to the place is given automatic preferential rights that cause the erosion of the rights of someone living there.

There are of course a significant number of Muslim countries who bar entry to Israel passport holders while 20% of the Israeli population are Arab and enjoy full equal rights.

Correct which is why Israel no longer stamps passports due to this disgusting practice of those States.

Correct. Surely people are aware of this?

Well, precisely. And given that there are no Jews left in many Arab states (after centuries of second class citizenship and so on), past history in Europe, and the hideous levels of antisemitism around at the moment, it's not hard to see why many Jews are grateful that Israel exists.