Advertising Israeli Birthright

[TinyYellow]

I was upset to see Mumsnet advertising Isreal’s birthright tours.

Birthright is a Zionist practice that directly contributes to the illegal expansion of Israeli settlements in the Palestinian West Bank.

Why is MN ok with advertising something that could not only be seen as alienating to a minority ethnic group but that also supports international law being broken?

@Yazzi I'm sorry for the deaths of your loved ones. I too have lost people in this horrible conflict. Just as the innocent people who were harmed and killed on October 7th did not deserve what happened to them, our loved ones in Palestine did not and do not deserve what is happening to them.

I've no idea why so many people attempt to deflect attention away from the topics concerning Israel by bringing in completely irrelevant "but in Muslim countries..." I do suspect Islamophobia is sometimes a driver behind support/allyship to Israel. There are a few posters who always seem to pop up a lot with "in Saudi Arabia....", as if they have to constantly make it a 'civilized Jews vs barbaric Muslims thing', which is very abhorrent. There are many non Muslims in Palestine who have suffered under the occupation, and (secular) Jews in Israel as well who have suffered at the hands of the government or in certain communities because they don't 'fit' with their religious beliefs.

I guess its because posters were suggesting that there are no other countries in the world which prevent certain races / religions entering.

And which Muslim countries prevent Jews from entering, or any other group?

The Maldives, Algeria, Bangladesh, Brunei, Iran, Iraq, Kuqait, Lebanon, Libya, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria and Yemen all ban entry to Israeli passport holders.

@Teddleshon there is no prohibition on Jews entering any of these countries. Israeli passport holders is completely different, they could be Jews, Muslims, Druze, Christian. And your post highlights my point about people trying to make this a Muslim vs Jew issue.

But all Jews are entitled to an Israeli passport and Israel is obviously the only Jewish state. How can it not be a Muslim issue when it is only Muslim countries who take this stance?

👆

@Teddleshon it is not a ban on Jews though. Twenty percent of Israeli passport holders are Muslim, and a smaller % other religions. They are presumably banned too. It is a political stance as I understand, as they don't recognize the legitimacy of Israel.

I didn't say antisemitism wasn't a factor in the law, I was saying that none of these countries banned Jews from entering, as previous posters incorrectly stated.

The Maldives didn't seem to know that Israeli passport holders can be Arab as well as Jewish.

So they've been trying to figure out a way to ban Jews from entering Maldives since they realised their error. There's a word for that!

BUT this thread isn't about these issues and it's become an overspill of the CITME section.

Fact is, this thread's purpose has been killed stone dead since @JustineMumsnet overturned the initial ban on the advert in question.

Seems to me this thread should be locked & further posts prevented from being added to it.....

@DownNative can I remind you that there are Arab Jews too. You often confuse Arabs and Muslims.

If not recognising the State of Israel isn't about the Jews what it is it about?

I need no such reminder. And, no, I don't often confuse Arabs and Muslims. I'm aware that Israel's demography is 73% Jewish, 21% Arab and 6% Other, i.e., foreigners.

Usually, I don't comment on Ethnicity and religion as my main focus is terrorism, security and counter-terrorism.

Convenient of you to blatantly ignore the thread topic which has also been killed stone dead by Justine.

Site Stuff is NOT an extension of CITME which is the proper place for the debate you're intent on having.

@Teddleshon it still stands that there isn't a ban on Jews entering Muslim countries, as you and other posters previously said. I think many have issues with the legitimacy of Israel, without having issues with Jewish people on the whole. Settlements, illegal land grabbing, human rights violations, murder of children and so on....but that isn't the point of this thread.

@DownNative I did not ignore the thread topic, I commented on it, if you read it you will see. As threads often do, they evolve and move on, we don't need you to police them. It's fine for me to leave it here though. I do think you need to be careful when referring to ethnicity and religion though, it's only respectful, and also when incorrect it misleading.

Israeli Apartheid

Give it a rest. There's nothing incorrect about what I said. 👇

@poshsnobtwit your entire argument is based on the premise that it is not acceptable for Israel to grant citizenship rights on the basis of religion. But why would that be any less reasonable than the routes to citizenship offered by other countries? Why should my children who have citizenship rights to two EU countries they've never set foot in because of their grandparents' nationality, have more rights to settle in those countries than say a Syrian refugee? Why should someone whose European parents chose to book a private hospital in the US for their birth, purely for the passport, have more right to US citizenship than an undocumented immigrant who has lived and worked there since early childhood? Not to mention citizenship through investment (not strictly a 'birthright' although it comes down to the same thing if you are born to wealthy parents).

There are very good historical reasons why Israel has decided to enshrine in law its status as a safe haven for Jewish people worldwide.

I agree with @DownNative , it would be better to shut this thread down. It has turned into yet another off-topic bunfight that is not helpful to Palestinians, Israelis or anyone else.

As said earlier Israel passport holders are denied entry to so many countries whilst there is so much hostility towards Israel shows just how difficult it is. The attacks in October were unprovoked and show how vulnerable Israel is.

Please read the posts 😃I wasn't intending to come back to this thread, as we have been reminded several times it is Site Stuff however needed to respond to this. My entire argument is not based on the premise of citizenship based on religion (you don't have to be Jewish to get citizenship!) but this:

it's not the citizenship issue that bothers me, but the Law of Return, when millions of Palestinians have been displaced worldwide, often living in horrendous conditions in refugee camps with no right to return. They might have been born there, lived on the land but have no rights? How is this fair? Obviously the more people that want to move to Israel, the more land is grabbed needed, which results in even worse conditions for the Palestinians

Are you really trying to pretend that Jewish people would be welcomed back to eg Iraq? They weren't even citizens with equal rights to other Iraqis in the first place 🤦🏻‍♀️ They weren't allowed to travel outside of their towns, they weren't allowed to attend university. They had to have 'Jew' stamped in their ID cards.

Taglit is a wonderful programme and it is not a political one. I know someone who is very much an "anti-Zionist" and also a rabid anti-Semite who went and was welcomed with open arms. It's not just right-wing Zionist Jews who are allowed on the programme 🙄

agree that birthright is great. Of course, if Jews weren't shown around Israel the complaint would be that the Israelis were ashamed and had something to hide. I'd consider it to be similar to trips to India for Hindus, or to the Punjab for Sikhs, which no-one would object to despite the pretty ropey human rights records of both.