Disability hate on MN

[IClaudine]

Hi MNHQ

Since Sunak’s announcement on disability benefits, there has been a big increase on MN in hostility towards people who receive then.

The abuse, hate and outright lies (my neighbour’s son’s cousin’s wife climbs Mount Everest but gets PIP etc) being spewed on MN towards disabled people, a group with protected characteristics, has been dreadful and very distressing for disabled people and their loved ones to read,

Please can you do something?

Here is a small selection of the threads where the disability benefit bashers have paid a visit and had a field day. There may be more, but I can’t face searching for them!

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5064828-to-be-terrified-about-pip?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share  

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5065470-people-who-work-have-anxiety-too?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5066670-aibu-to-hope-that-able-bodied-people-will-support-disabled-people-against-the-tory-attack-on-pip?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/money-matters/5064856-pip-vouchers-to-replace-money?reply=134966246&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/money-matters/5066331-do-you-feel-bad-for-receiving-a-high-amount-of-uc?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

If you do this it's worth reminding people that disability benefits consistently have the lowest level of fraud of any benefit (and much lower than tax fraud). Anyone can check for themselves using ONS or other Gov statistics where rates < 0.2-3% are typical.

I've told people this many a time. They don't want to hear it 🤦🏻‍♀️

Trouble is they all claim they personally know the 0.2% or that they work/have worked in 'the public sector' and so know better than the ONS.

Hey @DawnMumsnet @LilyMumsnet any news on my idea for MN to have a standard response to post in the benefits bashing threads?

A new spate of bashing started up last night and you did make few deletions (thank you) but I think MNHQ posting a quiet reminder would really help.

It is funny that, isn't it?

I would actually say that particular forum is an echo chamber where people egg each other on, often actively seeing how far they can push things before deletion (and knowing what MN will and will not deal with) on and howl at the few posters who appear to try and engage in a debate or offer another viewpoint. don't want to start a debate about that on claudine's thread about disability but I do feel that 'freedom to speak out' has emboldened certain MNers , safe in the knowledge that their freedom to be offensive, to mock, to deride is protected. Some of the threads on Brianna Ghey contained some of the worst things I have ever seen in writing.

Even on the Black Mumsnetters forum , non Black posters come on (frequently) and instruct Black posters that they are incorrect in their thinking (happened yesterday).
It's the condescension towards others and the outright othering all over MN that needs fixing. And the stubborn belief from posters that they are correct in the face of statistical data and/or evidence from lived experience. Of course, hiding behind a keyboard makes people brazen.

Unless you have reported numerous outright unpleasant, cruel and othering posts yourself, bumpity you wouldn't know that it is often extremely hard to convince MNHQ that they are hurtful, damaging or - in any form - prejudiced and discriminatory. And I would suggest your robust defence of yourself and your posts imply you know the boundaries and know what you can say on here - and so, regardless of upset, you'll say it and repeat it anyway.

The OP tried to create a place for people to discuss how they feel and you have repeatedly told a few posters that they are wrong to be offended. Just say sorry or , if you aren't, say nothing. The OP is a fabulous person and doesn't deserve this.

And, to add, I find it interesting that you think people who report posts are putting pressure on MNHQ rather than reporting something because it actually is toxic or harmful.

sometimes its good when someone comes on a thread like this and proves the point.

Agreed.

Please don't post directly to me when the OP has requested I no longer respond on this thread. It is obviously putting me in a very unfair position where I have to either let your comments remain unchallenged or I respond and get accused of taking over the thread.

OP addressed this thread to MNHQ. It wasn't set up as a safe space but as a call to action. Posters were specifically referencing my posts as examples of posts that should be removed. I posted here to defend myself and my posts. You do not have the right to tell me that I can either apologise or say nothing at all. You are not the MN Thought Police.

I don't report posts often because I don't think they break the Talk Guidelines. I am however frequently offended and upset by what I read, but I am aware this isn't necessarily justification for removing someone's free speech.

Someone asked me about my futire plans amd age etc.

Background to these posts whilst I was being somewhat criticised re a cinema trip I learnt that my brother had had a severe medical emergency was hospitalised for 5 days but had not want to tell me to avoid distress. Suddenly I’m thinking about my own mortality - my mum had the same - and what happens to my son if I get dementia or die.

i was going to draft a post for advice re social housing or supported living but the level of nastiness has actually stopped me wanting to post re these things, so as things stand the current tone of MN is stopping people using it for one of its purposes which is to get advice from people who have experienced the same issues. I don’t trust it not to get hijacked by someone telling me for instance, that my son would be lucky to get housing when hard working tax payers are living in cars etc. Yet surely this is one of the purposes of MN to get help with challenging things where advice is not easily available.

How many people with a disabled offspring have contemplated suicide and then thought better not as we are going to have to stay alive to look after them? I know form talking to people a fair few.

The fact that I am thinking this about getting advice for my son who clearly has complex and challenging needs means that he will have needs which are more than John down the pub etc

The Government has not helped as their messages are really mixed making out that it’s all about people with a bit of mental health issue when their Green paper is far more wide sweeping than that. It’s been presented in a disingenuous way which is quite shocking. This is the most radical overhaul of benefits in at least 10 years. The whole purpose of pip was to trust the recipient and to avoid expensive administration in weighing up the multitude of ways. Quite frankly some of these costs just pop up and are not anticipated eg should we get an updated Ed Psych report for university costing £1500 as old reports more than 3 or so years are not accepted and also to inform the DSA?
what sort of tech should he have for university - do you have a clue as I don’t?
This reform is nothing to do with a bit of mental health but a desire to slash the pip budget thought a dubious consultation. It will impact people and it will most likely cost more.

You want to slash the cost of pip here’s a few ideas

Stop fighting people and provide the direct therapies eg OT and SALT that is needed to make real progress

Offer genuine support in school and also proper specialist school placements so that kids can reach their true potential

Offer life skills as part of that education form an early age- my son went through 19;years of life with no life skills from education - you reap what you sow.

improve buses to make them more ND friendly eg so my son does not have to stand on a busy bus and get brushed against which tortures him

Make sure buses turn up so that they don’t throw someone who had rigid thinking

make buses clean so that they don’t repulse someone with a high sense of smell

ban eating on buses

Set up local minibus services to transport the disabled - most were cost cut

Have swimming quiet hours for the disabled at public pools

offer more disabled sports

set up more disabled clubs or support more grass roots attempts because charitable status is impossible to get and it’s hard to get donations. They need premises and some funds as organisers usually have disabled kids and are carers themselves.

A lifetime need is a huge cost - help as you do with people, putting money away in pensions - parent to put away money tax fresh for their off spring to a reasonable level.

Educate the people to be aware that some people can’t make choices easily and will take time at a counter instead of people tutting

Allow people who get stressed in queues to fast track so they avoid the stress and make shopping more accessible - by stress I mean have sensory issues that make being touched feel like an electric shock

Develop body suits so people can experience life as someone with moderate needs ASD eg the intense fear of touch or the loud sounds and the force of the sound waves.

Sort out pavements so that there is no on pavement parking on narrow roads so that a disabled person is scared to go by for fear of being brushed against

likewise remove all overgrown bushes that impede movement along the pavement

restrict on pavement signage and general street furniture that impedes progress as agin it causes fear and distress.

So how is that for a start?

I think it would be and is extremely helpful for people to understand what the current set up is and how funding is allocated. It’s very clear reading both pronouncements from on high and quibbles and spite from the less involved that people don’t understand how the benefits safety net works even though they pay for it.

Here’s some more

Take away the. 1.5 hours wait to get through to pip or universal credit - fit for work assessment team

Take away the lengthy fight and arguments over EHCP and funding

Simplify the funding of high needs at school into the EHCP rather than 2 systems

All these things take up huge amounts of time

More data sharing between DLA / pip and other agencies eg social services / NHS and colleges/ schools and other agencies eg housing
Frankly people with higher needs are known. Also ask the community groups set up by agencies for info - someone going weekly to a disability group with other learning impaired / ASD people is likely to be higher needs - it’s common sense.

Focus more on investigating everyone else as it’s stressful and with all the other stuff is a lot of work

Stop passing the buck - provide support to train the PA rather than telling parent carers it’s their job and also tell them what should be spent eg for trips out so we agree a budget with PA

Realise that the Pa rate is abysmal and makes it hard to recruit- make it a better job

but oh no the Government does not want to help it’s just launches an attack

OP addressed this thread to MNHQ. It wasn't set up as a safe space but as a call to action

Thank you for letting me know what my intentions were when starting this thread!

I posted in "site stuff" knowing that many disabled people and carers on MN felt the same and thought it would be a good way for all of us to express our concerns to MNHQ and show them examples of what has been happening on the site.

@Noras I totally understand what you mean about being reluctant to post for advice due to the danger of getting a pile on.

I think you have some good ideas, btw. Maybe respond to the green paper if you haven't already done so?

I am all for free speech, btw. But there is a difference between free speech and slinging around discriminatory hate and lies. Disability is a protected characteristic for a reason.

I totally agree and I've been arguing this point on a lot of threads. I feel like I've been banging my head against a brick wall, though.

Thanks again for posting this thread, IClaudine.

Don’t leave, the hateful lot on here want to shame and eradicate us. We have to stick together and make our voices heard.

I would say to those feeling (very very understably) upset to remember that you're being played. Benefits (everything except pensions) is an absolute dog whistle to just the most awful people who we wouldn't give the time of day to irl. That or bots or some weird 4chan type stuff. It's just content generating and what does MN want? Content and controversy.

For your OWN health and happiness use MN wisely in sections with like minded people. If other people need the resources they'll track you down in the safe bits.

Don't ruin your day by getting sucked in, you won't educate the masses, they don't give a shit.

I'm one of you and i understand. You need your energy for yourself and your family not some anonymous shower of shite.

I know what you are saying, but personally I will continue to challenge it on here when I feel up to doing so. Online hate bleeds into real life.

The benefit bashers and their fairy tales are at it again on a thread about PIP fraud being 0%

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/chat/5080305-pip-fraud-is-0-says-dwp

MNHQ has said that whilst they are happy to intervene, it would be reserved for threads that they have reason to intervene on. But I am unclear what those reasons are other than a breach of the Talk guidelines?

(Edited to be fair and quote what MNHQ said rather than my possibly grumpy interpretation!).

Oh, not again those threads make me so mad.

PIP is nearly impossible to successfully claim without a tribunal as is.

I think it’s Tory bots spreading nonsensical propaganda.

Or the ones on £175K who claim they don't have much left at the end of the month. It's difficult to ignore those sorts of goady posts when they come back on all wide-eyed and innocent, ooo sorry if I offended anyone. Yeah, well anyone who earns that kind of money can't be that thick as mince.

Well their original post said they were in SE London, and later posts actually said Islington, so maybe not the brightest.

Land value tax: land can't be hidden or taken out of the country.

Turning different sections of the working class against each other is Tory 101.

And still the disability hate continues. This is a charmer of a thread.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5169048-family-member-awarded-enhanced-pip-aibu

It was so upsetting, I had to hide it. Somebody also taking the piss out of people with fibromyalgia. My friend has that. She suffers so much. She works. She doesn't claim PIP because of people like that. It's sickening. Never mind disabled people having to be accountable for what they spend. Absolutely disgusting.