Disability hate on MN

[IClaudine]

Hi MNHQ

Since Sunak’s announcement on disability benefits, there has been a big increase on MN in hostility towards people who receive then.

The abuse, hate and outright lies (my neighbour’s son’s cousin’s wife climbs Mount Everest but gets PIP etc) being spewed on MN towards disabled people, a group with protected characteristics, has been dreadful and very distressing for disabled people and their loved ones to read,

Please can you do something?

Here is a small selection of the threads where the disability benefit bashers have paid a visit and had a field day. There may be more, but I can’t face searching for them!

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5064828-to-be-terrified-about-pip?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share  

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5065470-people-who-work-have-anxiety-too?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5066670-aibu-to-hope-that-able-bodied-people-will-support-disabled-people-against-the-tory-attack-on-pip?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/money-matters/5064856-pip-vouchers-to-replace-money?reply=134966246&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/money-matters/5066331-do-you-feel-bad-for-receiving-a-high-amount-of-uc?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

It’s not a fair comment but not really worth reporting.

@Noras
*So a PA takes me son out for the day - she’s working and has lunch and a drink whilst taking him to the cinema -

Who pays for lunch for the PA and a drink?

My son goes out with the Pa and refuses to get on a bus and another bus - 2 hours late they get him back - that’s 2 hours extra Pa time at say £12 per hour - the Uber would have been £8. As a result of the stress he/ she resigns so a new advert is put out ( £250 cost) parents have to interview and train. There are administrative expense signing the new Pa up for PAYE and issuing a contract. Who covers the advertising costs for a PA?*

That is simply not what you wrote though on that thread! I have posted what was actually written above. I think £100 is a vast underestimate if we factor in the £250 advert etc. I don't want to restart the debate because I know this isn't the place and I don't really want to get into individual's circumstances but I just want to highlight to MN HQ the misrepresentation that can go on and how this is used to cast posters as villains.

No, I think that’s appalling.

It has started up again on yet another thread. I really have had enough now. I would delete my MN membership if it wasn't for the fact that there is a long running thread thatvI really enjoy.

Yes. Me too. So it's even started on this thread. Challenging what's offensive to people living through very difficult and complex caring responsibilities, then others blithely saying that respite care is "babysitting to go and drink wine"

The people who state that this is acceptable are either on the wind up, or don't understand the constant chipping away of their lived experiences.

It was said many times on that thread that taxis were a luxury. Even when it was explained that taxis in these instances were for ND kids that couldn't cope with public transport.

I'm a single parent. I'm disabled. My child is disabled. I was a full time worker on a high wage for 33 years until I had to give up work due to my own health and that of my child.

It is disingenuous to say that is just an alternative opinion. Being disabled is a protective characteristic. Being challenged on that disability, or that of your child should break talk guidelines. It often borders a personal attack.

So yes, guidelines should be clear on that. Hence the reason for this thread.

You derailed the thread in question due to your constant questioning. One of your major arguments was around temporary illness and injury. It's not the same as being permanently disabled. It's been pointed out again and again to you. Temporary illness or injury is something we all can expereince and should plan for if we can. Permanent disability is a very different thing. Stop making disabled people feel responsible for something they have no control over. It's difficult enough.

And now there's another one up. I am shocked at the vitriol and ignorance from people. Apparently, it's really easy and common to live 'off benefits' as a lifestyle choice; why should taxpayers pay for these scummy addicts sleeping all day etc etc...There are some cunts on this forum, there really are.

No. I just commented that mumsnet doesn’t need to remove a comment because someone is offended by it. It’s not a support group it’s aibu.

I’m glad there are benefits for people who cannot work or work part time because there is very little out there in terms of childcare where there are disabilities. I hope no one has to do without them.

So do you think that people shouldn't be able to debate anything to do with religion then because that too is a protected characteristic? What about gender reassignment? Half of this forum would be removed if people weren't allowed to question things related to protected characteristics.Sex is a protected characteristic so this is a complete minefield on a forum like this when posters frequently express strong opinions about other women (SAHMs, working mum debates) and men (the Feminism board). We are going to rapidly end up with a forum where very little can be discussed and debated it will almost always end up straying into an area that touches onto a protected characteristic

I also think we need to think about how posters treat inference. Should we ban any post that could possibly interpreted as being offensive to someone with a protected characteristic? What if my interpretation is different to your interpretation?

Again, you have mischaracterised my argument. I never wrote anything about temporary illnesses being the same as long term disabilities, I argued that the needs that arise from a short term (under 12 months) version of a condition can be the same as the needs that arise from a longer term version (over 12 months) of the same condition. Depression was used as an example. You can disagree with me but it is simply that, a difference of opinion. You are not objectively correct because it's nuanced and hugely case dependent. I really don't want to start this up again but sometimes it really is just a difference opinion and you may well feel that the other opinion is wrong and offensive but that doesn't mean it should be banned. The same is true with taxis.

This is what happened actually

i explained why a taxi or Uber might be necessary - through several posts I explained that my son might refuse the bus and need an Uber

you persisted in your various arguments re Uber and completely took over the thread my a ridiculous almost obsessive number of posts.

I explained that hypothetically if my son did not take an Uber

the Pa would have to wait in the rain - the cost would he more and also the advertising costs for a new PA would he £250

i then explained that actually what happened was and here are the words copied and pasted - my son was scared of the bus at night - the Pa panicked and messed up the Uber it cost £6 but in any event my husband picked up

You then jumped of the conclusion from guesswork that the trip cost £100 and said it was unsustainable

Here are the copy and paste

You

I didn't say that or imply that.

There is a vast difference between questioning a £100 cinema trip and saying all disabled people should stand in a corner and die quietly!
Show quote history

me
I’m trying to decide what is an acceptable activity.

The cinema ticket was funded by parents

The cinema gave a ticket to the Pa

The state paid the Pa for my son to access the community - this gives us his parent carers also respite - the alternative is a 1800 bill per week social care plus housing. I need respite after so many years - you know the luxury of a Saturday night free.

The state is funding the PA / the Pa expenses and the taxi if son refuses bus - as it was the Uber was a mess up and hubby ended up having to pick up. Be it cinema or a drink in a pub or pizza the costs are low in the scheme of needs. It’s all regarded as education to get him out- mixing. His natural inclination would be to stay in. Before long he would go backwards and then he would be a major problem.

Your words

I am sorry but I don't believe that a £100 cinema trip is the only option for someone to get out of the house. I know it can be difficult when neurodiversity is involved but I just don't buy that at all. Even if it were true, how many times would they have to go a week for it to mean that the person had a reasonable standard of life, afterall getting out of the house once a week surely wouldn't hit the mark? Twice or three times? £300 plus!!! This is completely unsustainable and unaffordable. This is why it's important to be realistic in expectations. Nobody wants to see disabled people cold, hungry and homeless but it's hard to accept that cinema trips and other luxuries are essential parts of life when so many people can't afford them.

‘Nobody wants to see disabled people cold, hungry and homeless but it's hard to accept that cinema trips and other luxuries are essential parts of life when so many people can't afford them.’

From these words I interpreted that my son should not have a cinema trip when others can’t afford them.

Here is where I explained exactly what happened on the night again copy and pasted …

……

I’m trying to decide what is an acceptable activity.

The cinema ticket was funded by parents

The cinema gave a ticket to the Pa

The state paid the Pa for my son to access the community - this gives us his parent carers also respite - the alternative is a 1800 bill per week social care plus housing. I need respite after so many years - you know the luxury of a Saturday night free.

The state is funding the PA / the Pa expenses and the taxi if son refuses bus - as it was the Uber was a mess up and hubby ended up having to pick up. Be it cinema or a drink in a pub or pizza the costs are low in the scheme of needs. It’s all regarded as education to get him out- mixing. His natural inclination would be to stay in. Before long he would go backwards and then he would be a major problem.

……..

Nobody wants to see disabled people cold, hungry and homeless but it's hard to accept that cinema trips and other luxuries are essential parts of life when so many people can't afford them.

I have no words. 😳

This place CANNOT be for real.

I am trying hard not to be accused of taking over this thread but even if this scenario was completely hypothetical (which absolutely wasn't clear in your post and you never said it was hypothetical in the thread in question) then the assessment of the hypothetical trip's cost was reasonable as you mentioned lunch for the carer and their drink, transport to the cinema, the cost of your son's ticket plus at least four hours of the PA's time (hourly pay plus employer's NI and Pension costs). That might not be all paid by the state but it is still the cost of the trip.

You have interpreted the quoted section incorrectly. I never wrote that he shouldn't have cinema trips but it's hard to accept that they're an 'essential part of life'. If I wrote that going to the park wasn't an essential part of life for a child then that doesn't mean that I don't think that child should go to the park. 'Essential' is the operative word here! The interpretations are always so extreme and never what was actually written. You'll notice that in the extract you have pasted I was responding to another one of your posts where you had accused me of wanting disabled people to stand in a corner and die quietly. Except I hadn't written anything of the sort and don't think this.

Hopefully MN HQ will get time to check the thread and make an objective judgement on whether what was written was ableist and should be deleted.

That's disgusting, there is something seriously wrong with some posters on here

Bumpitybumper you are indeed taking over this thread.

Can you take this to a different thread please. I started this one as a safe place for people to talk about how the benefit bashing threads are affecting them and to ask MNHQ to take action. You are just turning it into another benefits bashing thread.

Totally.

Yes I agree. This will be last post on this matter.

I think it's hard for MN HQ to moderate fairly in the context of threads like these with pressure being applied to take down any posts that posters find offensive. I hope they read each post as it is written, not as they have been interpreted. The continuation of the gender boards have led me to believe that the squeaky wheel doesn't always get the oil and that debate can continue on sensitive subjects.

So many on here advise people making over 100k to stick the excess into their pension so they can claim free childcare, yet begrudge those with disabilities any sort life experiences or money. Fucking shocking

I’m an appointee for my adult child. They would have been entirely unable to make the initial phone call for an application form. It meant I did the assessment on their behalf which was terrifying but we got a good result which has made an unimaginable difference to their life.

Not just cunts, stupid cunts, clearly. Because they choose to ignore the point that people on out of work benefits have to prove they are looking for work, or the benefits stop.

Were these people asleep for the duration of the last 14 years when the current government has cut, cut, cut everything to the bone?

They have been at war with disabled people from the very beginning. And it shows!! With nasty comments filtering through to people who think it's ok to say that disabled people shouldn't be able to go to the fucking cinema.

No matter how much they have cut everything and made it impossible for people who are disabled to get disability benefits, the same ignorant people bleat on about how benefits are too high and people can live lives of luxury on them.

If you do this its worth reminding people that disability benefits consistently have the lowest level of fraud of any benefit (and much lower than tax fraud). Anyone can check for themselves using ONS or other Gov statistics where rates < 0.2-3% are typical.

No it isn't how discrimination works but that isn't what a resources thread is for. A general resources thread with information and experiences is useful for people going through the process or looking for new ideas. If others find the information useful or informative then fine but the target audience is people looking for support.

I wouldn't put it on the main boards but its a model which has worked well on other discussion groups/forums.

I agree there's a lot of disability / benefit hate on MN atm.

I feel like it's being done by bots or sock puppets, the lack of nuance is a giveaway.

I think MN just welcomes the traffic and doesn't care.

Yes the level of output is huge so the person must be a really fast typist and heavily invested or it’s ChatGPT. But if that is the case that ought to be investigated as it’s disturbing.