Page 5 | Hatred towards social housing tenants on here getting worse.

JenniferBooth · 2023-12-17T13:51:44+00:00

And really nasty and out of control Here is one example but there have been many [[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4964096-to-still-feel-slightly-bitter-about-this-inheriting-social-housing?page=1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4964096-to-still-feel-slightly-bitter-about-this-inheriting-social-housing?page=1]] There have been a few threads in the last week alone. Its like this is a nice safe little prejudice that the social housing haters can enjoy with no comebacks.

Fizbosshoes · 19/12/2023 07:05

I think when social housing was available to anyone who wanted it , without having to meet any criteria, then a lot of people were fortunate to get it. People struggling with rent or unable to save for a deposit might feel (understandably) envious, resentful maybe of the idea of a secure home for life and ,in many cases, much reduced rent.
Now SH is reserved for people in the most unfortunate circumstances and is not readily or easily available, and that is the fault of successive governments for selling off council houses without reinvesting or replacing them at the same rate. Its not tenants fault that the system has failed but I can see why people feel its unfair.

Comedycook · 19/12/2023 07:27

Boomboom22 · 19/12/2023 01:34

So comedycook house / estate was worth quite a lot more than 1 million that is tax free inheritance from both parents. In order to have to sell a house to pay 40% of over 1mill. Or whatever the allowance was then. Not really comparable here!

The tax free allowance on iht in our case at the time was a whopping £250k which is not a lot of you have a house in London

tiggergoesbounce · 19/12/2023 07:30

The tax free allowance on iht in our case at the time was a whopping £250k which is not a lot of you have a house in London

Its clearly a sign of privilege when you believe 250k is not alot. Although i completely understand what you mean, again its not a bad thing to inherit, but please acknowledge that privilege as lots of people would be very happy with that amount.

HelloNeighbour2021 · 19/12/2023 07:45

@Comedycook I’m not sure how you are able to compare our situations. If only I was lucky enough to inherit £s. As a working couple we just get by, we are not financially lucky enough to put money aside to save for a deposit, also as we are a working couple we are not entitled to any kind of financial help so the fact we was lucky enough to be given SH due to our entitlements I do not feel bad and will hold onto my house for as long as possible, also think of how much rent we have paid over the 37years on our £500 to build house? The only thing we have got out of that is the security. My mum gave up her RTB when she swapped with me, she could have bought at the top discount and made ££.

Im not sure how people can blame though who have been lucky enough to be given social housing for the shortage, wasn’t the plan when RTB came in that for every house sold another should be built??

Also it’s not the social housing tenants fault of the high price private rent, mortgage rates!!

I get the London rent/house prices are crazy amounts of money but at least you have the opportunity to buy a cheaper house elsewhere in the country if you because desperate. Think of thoughts who don’t have a roof over their head and are living in shelters!!

Holiday224 · 19/12/2023 07:53

HelloNeighbour2021 · 19/12/2023 07:45

@Comedycook I’m not sure how you are able to compare our situations. If only I was lucky enough to inherit £s. As a working couple we just get by, we are not financially lucky enough to put money aside to save for a deposit, also as we are a working couple we are not entitled to any kind of financial help so the fact we was lucky enough to be given SH due to our entitlements I do not feel bad and will hold onto my house for as long as possible, also think of how much rent we have paid over the 37years on our £500 to build house? The only thing we have got out of that is the security. My mum gave up her RTB when she swapped with me, she could have bought at the top discount and made ££.

Im not sure how people can blame though who have been lucky enough to be given social housing for the shortage, wasn’t the plan when RTB came in that for every house sold another should be built??

Also it’s not the social housing tenants fault of the high price private rent, mortgage rates!!

I get the London rent/house prices are crazy amounts of money but at least you have the opportunity to buy a cheaper house elsewhere in the country if you because desperate. Think of thoughts who don’t have a roof over their head and are living in shelters!!

Social housing tenants are allowed to swap. That's all you done. It just happens to be with your mum/child hood home. Which is lovely.

VeronicaSawyer89 · 19/12/2023 08:12

LorlieS · 19/12/2023 01:34

I have you admit I do struggle when I come across people in SH who have no intentions of working to support their families. I am certainly not saying that this is true of everybody in SH, of course it's not, but there are some who are in this situation.
My husband and I work incredibly hard in full-time jobs and still can't afford to buy. We are 43 and 48 and have been privately renting now for almost a decade.
Our rent is very expensive and I'm terrified of losing the property every time it comes up for renewal as suitable private rentals nearby and very rare. There is also the very real fear of rent going up so much we can no longer afford to live here. I don't feel secure in the slightest.

Edited

I know that fear of worrying if your private landlord is going to sell the house and you'll be forced to move on and fort out for yet another deposit, we did that for years. We got our HA house because the private rental we'd been living in was up for compulsory purchase. The council had to rehouse all people in the streets we were living in, homeowners and tenants. This was 16 years ago now. I love our HA house, it's very small (new build), in an awful area, but the rent is reasonable and the HA are always super quick with repairs. We've always worked to pay the rent, whether in private or SH.

Holiday224 · 19/12/2023 08:20

VeronicaSawyer89 · 19/12/2023 08:12

I know that fear of worrying if your private landlord is going to sell the house and you'll be forced to move on and fort out for yet another deposit, we did that for years. We got our HA house because the private rental we'd been living in was up for compulsory purchase. The council had to rehouse all people in the streets we were living in, homeowners and tenants. This was 16 years ago now. I love our HA house, it's very small (new build), in an awful area, but the rent is reasonable and the HA are always super quick with repairs. We've always worked to pay the rent, whether in private or SH.

Show quote history

I don't understand why people associate SH with people not working. If people have no intention of working. They won't weather its SH or private rent.

vodkaredbullgirl · 19/12/2023 08:39

The reason why we got HA house, we were private renting a 1 bedroom flat. The landlord was in his 80's and was selling up, my daughter's was 8 months old. We had been on council list for 5 years, this was back in the late 90's. We were still both working.

gamerchick · 19/12/2023 10:03

UtterlyButterly2048 · 19/12/2023 01:15

@VeronicaSawyer89 If it isn’t subsidised, who pays for it to be built? It is absolutely NOT all built under s106, Homes England invests vast sums of money into building social housing. Where, exactly, do you think that money comes from?
Of course it is subsidised, as it should be. I have absolutely no resentment towards those in SH and I don’t know anyone who does. Both my parents grew up in social housing. I am fortunate enough to have never needed it but I am grateful that we have it for those that do (albeit not enough) I do not like the shitty comments on here towards the poster who lost her family home to inheritance tax though. That’s also shit for her. A bit of empathy towards others goes a long way, irrespective of financial circumstances.

Houses built in the 40s/50s/60s/ etc have no mortgage, they've paid for themselves over and over again.

Developers pay a good price for land on the proviso that a percentage is to be SH. Which the council get the rents for.

Still can't see where the taxpayer is fitting into it. How are you paying for someone living in a house built in the 60s? Where is the subsidy?

Candycurrantbun · 19/12/2023 10:21

I would think the 'tax payer' subsidises private lets through HB more than SH. Obviously they don't mind lining some landlords pockets though.

Maverickess · 19/12/2023 10:55

LorlieS · 19/12/2023 01:34

I have you admit I do struggle when I come across people in SH who have no intentions of working to support their families. I am certainly not saying that this is true of everybody in SH, of course it's not, but there are some who are in this situation.
My husband and I work incredibly hard in full-time jobs and still can't afford to buy. We are 43 and 48 and have been privately renting now for almost a decade.
Our rent is very expensive and I'm terrified of losing the property every time it comes up for renewal as suitable private rentals nearby and very rare. There is also the very real fear of rent going up so much we can no longer afford to live here. I don't feel secure in the slightest.

Edited

Why do you only struggle with people in SH who have no intention of working? There's people in private rent who have no intention of working and the tax payer is paying their rent to a private LL so it's not even going into a non profit association that improves and maintains the area generally to the benefit of everyone who lives there. It's going to a private LL to make a private profit.

I lived the same way you are, with 9 moves in 13 years, although 2 of those were my choice. I also always have (with the exception of a few months where childcare wasn't available and I had to move for it - again) worked 'incredibly hard full time' too, unfortunately the jobs I've done are the ones that aren't valued (although they are needed, wanted and relied upon by society) and therefore low paid and looked down upon. I can't afford to buy either, nor private rent.

Surely the less people in your situation and the situation I was the better? At the very least there's less people competing for the private rent places available, because that would drive the rents up even more. Then what's the choice for people who can't afford it? Cardboard box under a bridge with everyone complaining about it? Because without SH, on my own, with a child I couldn't afford private rent prices, that would have been my option. Not conducive to being a productive member of society and being able to work nor lay the groundwork for my child to be the same.

I don't blame those who have partners for my lack of one or the fact that one I did have financially abused me to the point I had nothing left and needed SH. My life would be a lot easier with one!
So I don't see why I'm responsible for those who aren't eligible for SH struggling to pay rent or mortgages. Or because someone needed to sell their home after losing their parents to pay inheritance tax.

I sympathise greatly, obviously having been in the private rent situation I know what it's like, I can sympathise with grief and losing your home. Nothing I have done has contributed towards those situations. I can think those situations are wrong and unfair, and I do, but I'm still powerless to change them. Me not living in SH won't suddenly make you eligible, not will it stop the government imposing inheritance tax.

But, basically we're an easy target, because we're seen as the lowest of the low, stereotypes and untruths abound and become the basis of vitriolic attitudes - but still nothing changes does it? It's just a way for people to offload their negative feelings and emotions about their situation onto others and feel justified in doing so.

Begsthequestion · 19/12/2023 11:12

Britain loves a race to the bottom.

JazzyJogger · 19/12/2023 11:23

There is a myth that SH tenants are also on benefits , so are getting a free ride through life . That why there is resentment and hatred.

UtterlyButterly2048 · 19/12/2023 11:26

@gamerchick developers who build a proportion of housing as social is the S106 I was referring to. They have to do that, it’s a legal obligation. But, many, many council and housing association properties are being built by the organisations directly. Those are paid for in part by money from Homes England. That is government money which fundamentally comes from tax. And yes, whilst rent is paid, a proportion of SH tenants receive what used to be called housing benefit to cover that, which again comes from the public purse. I think social housing is a marvellous thing. Everyone should have access to a safe, warm and affordable home and it’s quite clear we need more of it, but to say it isn’t subsidised is factually incorrect.

MidnightMeltdown · 19/12/2023 11:58

I don't have a problem with social housing going to people who need it, but I don't think that they should be able to pass it down to their kids as if they own the place. Social housing should be distributed according to need, and need should be regularly assessed.

MidnightMeltdown · 19/12/2023 12:04

Also, while I'm sure that the majority of social housing tenants are perfectly nice, decent people, you do get a much higher proportion of 'problem neighbours' in social housing than you do in the general population.

That's why there is a stigma, and most people don't want to buy a house that is close to social housing. It's seen as high risk

MidnightMeltdown · 19/12/2023 12:18

I think this article explains the problem well. Social housing isn't being fairly distributed. It should be time limited and distributed according to need.

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/aug/09/social-housing-time-limited-tenancies

gamerchick · 19/12/2023 12:20

Candycurrantbun · 19/12/2023 10:21

I would think the 'tax payer' subsidises private lets through HB more than SH. Obviously they don't mind lining some landlords pockets though.

I think I get the impression the ones who bleet on about SH are private landlords themselves tbh. Happy to have people fork out a fortune to lay their little nest egg whether it's in the form or housing benefit or not.

gamerchick · 19/12/2023 12:24

UtterlyButterly2048 · 19/12/2023 11:26

@gamerchick developers who build a proportion of housing as social is the S106 I was referring to. They have to do that, it’s a legal obligation. But, many, many council and housing association properties are being built by the organisations directly. Those are paid for in part by money from Homes England. That is government money which fundamentally comes from tax. And yes, whilst rent is paid, a proportion of SH tenants receive what used to be called housing benefit to cover that, which again comes from the public purse. I think social housing is a marvellous thing. Everyone should have access to a safe, warm and affordable home and it’s quite clear we need more of it, but to say it isn’t subsidised is factually incorrect.

Alright I'll rephrase my question. People in a house built in the 60s, who don't and have never claimed housing benefit. Where is the subsidy?

You should have said you were on about housing benefit. Which is a subsidy paid in massive amounts to private landlords. You can't say SH is subsidised because of housing benefit. Are you just assuming everyone claims it just because they're in SH?

MidnightMeltdown · 19/12/2023 12:24

JazzyJogger · 19/12/2023 11:23

There is a myth that SH tenants are also on benefits , so are getting a free ride through life . That why there is resentment and hatred.

I think it's the opposite. I think it's the tenants who are NOT on benefits who cause resentment - because they are inhabiting properties which should go to those in need.

gamerchick · 19/12/2023 12:27

MidnightMeltdown · 19/12/2023 12:24

I think it's the opposite. I think it's the tenants who are NOT on benefits who cause resentment - because they are inhabiting properties which should go to those in need.

Show quote history

This is the crux of it. The whole attitude that SH doesn't really fit the picture inside people's heads, of free houses and benefits. People can't stand that private rents are a step down from SH. Just doesn't compute at all.

SH isn't and has never been linked to benefits. Hopefully it never will.

TheLocust · 19/12/2023 12:44

People can't stand that private rents are a step down from SH. Just doesn't compute at all.

Yeah I think there's some truth in this. It used to be the case that people in social housing were considered to be the "bottom rung" by many people. Now they're considered to be the fortunate ones by people who are paying extortionate rents or massive mortgages. So now some people resent those in social housing as well as looking down on them.

Maverickess · 19/12/2023 12:49

MidnightMeltdown · 19/12/2023 12:24

I think it's the opposite. I think it's the tenants who are NOT on benefits who cause resentment - because they are inhabiting properties which should go to those in need.

Show quote history

But having a job doesn't make you immune to not being in need.

And we need and rely upon some of the worst paid jobs in society, and there's a demand for more (see the customer service is so shit posts) even though they're not essential.

People doing those jobs don't earn significantly more than those on benefits when you take into account everything that's included, and many of them are also on benefits because they can't survive without. They've got to live somewhere or they're not going to be able to do these jobs and as established the price of private rent is outstripping people on middle incomes, so those on low incomes, because it's earned and not benefits do what?

But as @gamerchick says, the working but low earning SH tenant doesn't fit the stereotype that people want to believe about those who live in SH, making sure that it's only people on benefits means it's even easier to have a go about people getting a free ride at the tax payers expense.

MidnightMeltdown · 19/12/2023 12:50

TheLocust · 19/12/2023 12:44

People can't stand that private rents are a step down from SH. Just doesn't compute at all.

Yeah I think there's some truth in this. It used to be the case that people in social housing were considered to be the "bottom rung" by many people. Now they're considered to be the fortunate ones by people who are paying extortionate rents or massive mortgages. So now some people resent those in social housing as well as looking down on them.

You seem to have an obsession with who is superior to who. An inferiority complex perhaps?

This isn't the issue. The issue is that it's a limited resource which should be distributed fairly according to need. Nobody should be on a lifetime tenancy in social housing, and I hope that we will see an end to these in the future.

Original poster

JenniferBooth · 19/12/2023 14:07

MidnightMeltdown · Today 12:04

Also, while I'm sure that the majority of social housing tenants are perfectly nice, decent people, you do get a much higher proportion of 'problem neighbours' in social housing than you do in the general population

That's why there is a stigma, and most people don't want to buy a house that is close to social housing. It's seen as high risk
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MidnightMeltdown · Today 12:18

I think this article explains the problem well. Social housing isn't being fairly distributed. It should be time limited and distributed according to need

Siri show me someone who cant see the cognitive dissonance they are showing.

Can you not see that the time limitations on tenancies and SH only for those who are the most desperate is EXACTLY what causes the problem you describe Turning housing estates into giant hostels THEN people complain they dont want to buy a house near one or live near one. Jesus WTF is wrong with people Cant they see that this is what causes the problems e,g, im guessing the abusive alcoholic underneath me was in "need" Like i said turning housing estates into hostels!!!!

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