Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Site stuff

Join our Innovation Panel to try new features early and help make Mumsnet better.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Pregnant people?! It's 'women'

405 replies

BIWI · 19/09/2023 14:57

Two links to surveys today, from Kings College London and Cardiff University. Both surveys wanting to speak to 'pregnant people'.

It's women who get pregnant and give birth. Male members of our society are unable to conceive, grow and birth babies.

Please, please, please - why are you accepting these requests? Do you not read them first? (Especially seeing as you allow them to post their links for free).

I'm appalled that Mumsnet is now complicit in erasing the word 'woman'.

OP posts:
AccidentallyWesAnderson · 19/09/2023 17:54

Why mention anti-gay, racist and right wing?

Cailleachian · 19/09/2023 17:56

The whole of my feminism has been based around the fact that female people are people.

I welcome the term "pregnant people" because it is shit being a pregnant woman. Personhood should be centred first and foremost at a time when that person is physically, financially and emotionally vulnerable.

People get pregnant.
People have abortions
People give birth

Human rights includes the full range of human's capacities, including gestation and birthing. Human rights should not be restricted to only those rights which matter to non-female people.

viques · 19/09/2023 17:59

actualpuffins · 19/09/2023 16:44

How is the word "women" inclusive of someone who has changed sex legally to male?

Show quote history

Because that person , when they give birth will be registered as the mother of the child. Because they are a woman.

they will not be registered as the father, because they are not a man.

they will not be registered as the parent, because a birth certificate is the child’s record of its birth, so it needs to record the child’s parentage in detail.

SirChenjins · 19/09/2023 18:01

People get pregnant.
People have abortions
People give birth

People include both sexes. No male has ever done the above.

actualpuffins · 19/09/2023 18:04

Cailleachian · 19/09/2023 17:56

The whole of my feminism has been based around the fact that female people are people.

I welcome the term "pregnant people" because it is shit being a pregnant woman. Personhood should be centred first and foremost at a time when that person is physically, financially and emotionally vulnerable.

People get pregnant.
People have abortions
People give birth

Human rights includes the full range of human's capacities, including gestation and birthing. Human rights should not be restricted to only those rights which matter to non-female people.

Hear hear.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 19/09/2023 18:05

Freddie McConnell just showed what a mockery a GRC actually is. Giving birth to two children is one of the most female things you can do, and it isn't 'living as your intended gender identity and intending to live like that for the rest of your life'. Freddie rendered their own GRC useless and farcical.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 19/09/2023 18:06

SirChenjins · 19/09/2023 18:01

People get pregnant.
People have abortions
People give birth

People include both sexes. No male has ever done the above.

Yup. And this is why we use 'women' and not 'people'.

To distinguish between the two.

LittleEsme · 19/09/2023 18:07

OP, 100% with you.

SirChenjins · 19/09/2023 18:07

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 19/09/2023 18:06

Yup. And this is why we use 'women' and not 'people'.

To distinguish between the two.

Show quote history

Exactly.

Cailleachian · 19/09/2023 18:10

SirChenjins · 19/09/2023 18:01

People get pregnant.
People have abortions
People give birth

People include both sexes. No male has ever done the above.

So? Why does that matter?

It can be extrapolated that the person is female by mention of pregnancy, the term "woman" is redundant and actually unhelpful when talking of a 13 year old pregnant person.

The term "woman" implies adulthood, so the term "pregnant woman" is far less accurate than the term "pregnant person". This is why pregnant person is a more inclusive term.

StephanieSuperpowers · 19/09/2023 18:15

So the intention of changing woman to person is to be inclusive of raped children. We just can't tell if there's a specific factor that some children may have that would put them at particular risk. Still, probably doesn't matter...

Theeyeballsinthesky · 19/09/2023 18:16

All women are people but not all people are women

Sometimes it matters that we distinguish between the 2

SirChenjins · 19/09/2023 18:16

There’s no need to extrapolate anything - there’s a word that can be used to remove that need. Ditto a 13 year old who very sadly find herself pregnant.

Why does it matter? For all the reasons already given.

ILikeDungs · 19/09/2023 18:16

I welcome the term "pregnant people" because it is shit being a pregnant woman. Personhood should be centred first and foremost at a time when that person is physically, financially and emotionally vulnerable.

This thinking is so fucked up. That 'person' is physically, financially and emotionally vulnerable BECAUSE SHE IS A WOMAN. Who is pregnant. So it is shit being a pregnant women, huh? You do not escape that by calling yourself a pregnant person, you really don't.

Embrace being a woman and fight whatever forces are making the world shit for pregnant women.

Cailleachian · 19/09/2023 18:24

ILikeDungs · 19/09/2023 18:16

I welcome the term "pregnant people" because it is shit being a pregnant woman. Personhood should be centred first and foremost at a time when that person is physically, financially and emotionally vulnerable.

This thinking is so fucked up. That 'person' is physically, financially and emotionally vulnerable BECAUSE SHE IS A WOMAN. Who is pregnant. So it is shit being a pregnant women, huh? You do not escape that by calling yourself a pregnant person, you really don't.

Embrace being a woman and fight whatever forces are making the world shit for pregnant women.

No, the person is physically, financially and emotionally vulnerable because they are pregnant, which is a material condition, meaning that your body and mind take extra strain and you are unavailable for work for a period of time.

This is because the person is female (material sex) and not because they are a woman (socially constructed gender).

Cailleachian · 19/09/2023 18:26

StephanieSuperpowers · 19/09/2023 18:15

So the intention of changing woman to person is to be inclusive of raped children. We just can't tell if there's a specific factor that some children may have that would put them at particular risk. Still, probably doesn't matter...

The factor is obvious - it is because they are female.

But being female does not make them any less of a person than a person who is not.

GoodOldEmmaNess · 19/09/2023 18:26

Just want to add my agreement with the OP. It might seem like a small thing to some people, but it really, really isn't. Because it is part of a whole wave of language change that is confusing, counterintuitive and, of course, exclusionary since it makes so many women feel marginalised for the sake of a tiny number of people (many of whom would not endorse this butchering of language).

If MN is going to endorse the erasure of terms like mother, woman, I will stop posting here. I managed to kick my Twitter habit when it became more and more clearly a force for bad rather than good. So I know I can kick MN, especially if it makes itself less and less appealing in this way.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 19/09/2023 18:27

The King's College thread has been taken down 'at the request of the author'.

I'm surprised at MNHQ allowing a thread using 'pregnant people' to go up in the first place. I assume that nobody bothered to read it first?

We are women, pregnant or not pregnant, but WOMEN.

ILikeDungs · 19/09/2023 18:28

This is because the person is female (material sex) and not because they are a woman (socially constructed gender).

I am a woman. I have no socially constructed gender. That's all.

EasternStandard · 19/09/2023 18:29

ILikeDungs · 19/09/2023 18:28

This is because the person is female (material sex) and not because they are a woman (socially constructed gender).

I am a woman. I have no socially constructed gender. That's all.

Same here.

Cailleachian · 19/09/2023 18:30

ILikeDungs · 19/09/2023 18:28

This is because the person is female (material sex) and not because they are a woman (socially constructed gender).

I am a woman. I have no socially constructed gender. That's all.

Where did your identification with the gender of woman come from if it wasnt socially constructed?

From your lady brain, or from your special gendered soul?

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 19/09/2023 18:32

Cailleachian · 19/09/2023 18:10

So? Why does that matter?

It can be extrapolated that the person is female by mention of pregnancy, the term "woman" is redundant and actually unhelpful when talking of a 13 year old pregnant person.

The term "woman" implies adulthood, so the term "pregnant woman" is far less accurate than the term "pregnant person". This is why pregnant person is a more inclusive term.

Show quote history

That is just ridiculous for the sake of it. No need to define this as happening to a person - pregnancy, aborts, birthing - happens to women. ONLY to women. No need to use 'person' for girls becoming pregnant either - pregnant girl, if you prefer.

It is irritating to see a reference to a person when an activity could only ever apply to a woman. Just use the term woman.

We don't see 'people with prostate cancer', men have this type of cancer, no need to confuse the issue, is there?

EasternStandard · 19/09/2023 18:32

Cailleachian · 19/09/2023 18:30

Where did your identification with the gender of woman come from if it wasnt socially constructed?

From your lady brain, or from your special gendered soul?

Show quote history

Neither. Those phrases are used more by people who believe in gender ideology

Woman is a biological reality

Viewfrommyhouse · 19/09/2023 18:32

Cailleachian · 19/09/2023 18:30

Where did your identification with the gender of woman come from if it wasnt socially constructed?

From your lady brain, or from your special gendered soul?

Show quote history

Woman - adult human female. It's not an 'identity'.

ditalini · 19/09/2023 18:33

Cailleachian · 19/09/2023 18:24

No, the person is physically, financially and emotionally vulnerable because they are pregnant, which is a material condition, meaning that your body and mind take extra strain and you are unavailable for work for a period of time.

This is because the person is female (material sex) and not because they are a woman (socially constructed gender).

Show quote history

No. Feminine = socially constructed gender.
Woman = adult human female.

Woman is a human sex class, not a gender construct.

Yes, I know there has been an attempt to change that, but it's not a done deal, far from it.

And really? Really, really? You think 'female people' would fly in the same scenario with no complaints? No, we are not allowed 'woman' and we're not allowed 'female'. I'm not going to get all excited at still being allowed 'person'.