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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Pregnant people?! It's 'women'

405 replies

BIWI · 19/09/2023 14:57

Two links to surveys today, from Kings College London and Cardiff University. Both surveys wanting to speak to 'pregnant people'.

It's women who get pregnant and give birth. Male members of our society are unable to conceive, grow and birth babies.

Please, please, please - why are you accepting these requests? Do you not read them first? (Especially seeing as you allow them to post their links for free).

I'm appalled that Mumsnet is now complicit in erasing the word 'woman'.

OP posts:
WhateverMate · 19/09/2023 15:56

I agree OP.

@MNHQ you know how the vast majority of your members feel about this.

So it feels like a kick in the teeth that you'd ignore this for 'business purposes'.

Allmarbleslost · 19/09/2023 15:57

Hear hear

MrsCr0cus · 19/09/2023 15:59

Yes. 100% yanbu.

actualpuffins · 19/09/2023 16:02

How do you include transmen who are pregnant then? Surely it's just being inclusive and not offensive to say people?

ChaToilLeam · 19/09/2023 16:04

It bloody offends me.

If a person can be pregnant, that person is a woman. No matter what that woman might tell herself or the rest of the world.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/09/2023 16:09

Surely it's just being inclusive and not offensive to say people?

Perhaps listen to the majority of the women on this thread and the other ones. It's not inclusive to me and others, it's alienating. Why are believers of this ideology prioritised over every other woman?

Maddy70 · 19/09/2023 16:10

Isn't it for couples? The Americanism "we are pregnant "

actualpuffins · 19/09/2023 16:11

If a person can be pregnant, that person is a woman. No matter what that woman might tell herself or the rest of the world.

It might not be just what they re "telling the rest of the world" but they can be a transman and male legally, recognised in law and protected by legislation and still be pregnant, and the term "people" is therefore inclusive of them.

Fromage · 19/09/2023 16:11

Maddy70 · 19/09/2023 16:10

Isn't it for couples? The Americanism "we are pregnant "

Good point. Perhaps we should all respond to the surveys as men. Men are people too.

ditalini · 19/09/2023 16:11

actualpuffins · 19/09/2023 16:02

How do you include transmen who are pregnant then? Surely it's just being inclusive and not offensive to say people?

Almost no transmen are pregnant. It's staggeringly rare although you wouldn't know it with the attempts to change language to "include" them.

All transmen who ARE pregnant know that they are female.

Truly "inclusive" orgs use "additive" language, e.g a statement that they are including females/afab who don't identify as women in their definitions, or "and trans men / non-binary people afab".

It's not inclusive to use language that you have been told that some women find inhumanising.

It's not inclusive to use unclear language that some women with additional needs find inaccessible.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/09/2023 16:13

they can be a transman and male legally

A vanishingly small number of them are "male legally" and they are still listed as the mother on the birth certificate. They are actually female. Not male. That's why they can become pregnant.

cornflower21 · 19/09/2023 16:14

actualpuffins · 19/09/2023 16:02

How do you include transmen who are pregnant then? Surely it's just being inclusive and not offensive to say people?

Another brainwashed.🙈🙈🙈

Viewfrommyhouse · 19/09/2023 16:16

actualpuffins · 19/09/2023 16:11

If a person can be pregnant, that person is a woman. No matter what that woman might tell herself or the rest of the world.

It might not be just what they re "telling the rest of the world" but they can be a transman and male legally, recognised in law and protected by legislation and still be pregnant, and the term "people" is therefore inclusive of them.

And they'll still be recorded as MOTHER on the birth certificate.

ILikeDungs · 19/09/2023 16:19

actualpuffins · 19/09/2023 16:02

How do you include transmen who are pregnant then? Surely it's just being inclusive and not offensive to say people?

If a transman is pregnant it is because transmen are women. So surely describing survey participants as women IS inclusive of transmen.

Not using the word woman is exclusive and offensive to women.

actualpuffins · 19/09/2023 16:19

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/09/2023 16:09

Surely it's just being inclusive and not offensive to say people?

Perhaps listen to the majority of the women on this thread and the other ones. It's not inclusive to me and others, it's alienating. Why are believers of this ideology prioritised over every other woman?

I'm telling people what the law is and why this is done, I'm not going to get into a debate on personal opinion over whether it should be possible to change sex legally.

What I would say is while I have some concerns over male bodied people being allowed to be in female only spaces, I am dismayed to see how the right wing anti-gay, misogynistic, racist, PC gorn mad types have managed to recruit people who would never be racist etc in their lives to be transphobic and go on about women being erased because of the use of a word.

Some of the language "womb-havers" and stupid stuff like that is offensive but being called a person definitely isn't.

Runnerduck34 · 19/09/2023 16:21

Agree its very offensive to me , particularly as a mother to 3 girls to try and erase the word woman.
If you are pregnant you are clearly biologically female and therefore a woman.
If you were transman surely having rejected your biological state you would be horrified by the thought of being pregnant?
Its pregnant women not pregnant people.

Thatsshallot1967 · 19/09/2023 16:22

Trying to use so called inclusive wording for a teeny tiny minority just alienated the majority
A million percent agree on this.....are pregnant trans identifying females really offended by being called a "pregnant woman" or is this everyone getting their knickers in a twist for fear of not being inclusive? It would be good to hear from TIFs/transmen MNetters on this.

Also cannot abide the term "we're pregnant!", oft uttered by women. It's just YOU that's pregnant, your other half cannot and never will be.

Chersfrozenface · 19/09/2023 16:27

actualpuffins · 19/09/2023 16:19

I'm telling people what the law is and why this is done, I'm not going to get into a debate on personal opinion over whether it should be possible to change sex legally.

What I would say is while I have some concerns over male bodied people being allowed to be in female only spaces, I am dismayed to see how the right wing anti-gay, misogynistic, racist, PC gorn mad types have managed to recruit people who would never be racist etc in their lives to be transphobic and go on about women being erased because of the use of a word.

Some of the language "womb-havers" and stupid stuff like that is offensive but being called a person definitely isn't.

Show quote history

"Person / people" are words that encompass all humans, including the approximately 50% who cannot get pregnant.

"Person / people" are appropriate words when referring to humans of both sexes (there are only two, as with all mammalian species). "People who work in medicine" is correct

In the case of those who are pregnant, the correct words are "woman / women".

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/09/2023 16:30

I'm telling people what the law is and why this is done

They're not considered fathers legally, they're mothers.

ILikeDungs · 19/09/2023 16:30

The Kings College survey has been withdrawn.

Looks like their "Lived Experience Experts" have gained some useful lived experience.

ILikeDungs · 19/09/2023 16:33

actualpuffins "I am dismayed to see how the right wing anti-gay, misogynistic, racist, PC gorn mad types have managed to recruit people who would never be racist etc in their lives to be transphobic and go on about women being erased because of the use of a word."

That's an astounding dollop of nonsense.

StephanieSuperpowers · 19/09/2023 16:34

How did they even guess that Mumsnet might be a place where persons of pregnancy might hang out to fill out their surveys? Lucky guess, I suppose.

Weefreetiffany · 19/09/2023 16:34

Erase the 99% for the sake of less than 1% and if you disagree it’s off to be burnt a the stake like all the witches before you.

MNHQ
YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet · 19/09/2023 16:37

Hi there - the surveys were posted in our not-for-profit surveys section, which we don't charge for or approve in advance. As with posts elsewhere on the boards, we operate a notice and take-down policy. If the content breaks our guidelines then we'd remove it as we would any other post.

If you have concerns about the methodology of any survey posted in this section, you're welcome to give constructive feedback on the thread (obviously within our guidelines). Thank you.

actualpuffins · 19/09/2023 16:39

This is not the same as a male bodied person having access to a rape crisis centre or women's prison, this is about including all biological women in pregnancy services including those who are non-binary or have changed sex legally.

What language is used in order to be inclusive is debatable. That pregnant transmen or non binary people should be included in the provision of pregnancy services is not up for debate AFAIC.