Quite a few aggressive vaccine denying threads lately...

[mathanxiety]

Is there some sort of concerted campaign afoot? I've noticed a few threads recently, all along the same lines. Very dog whistley...

Yes, I'm not sure I'd have bothered with the booster if I could go back and do it again tbh. Was supposed to have a 4th but got Covid at the time it was due so didn't bother. I'm fine with it. I don't discourage others to have it and don't think its going to kill me, just seemed too much for an old body like mine.

Yes I agree.

I find it interesting and helpful to look back and question things.

@Changeau Yep it's the last one that did me !

Genuinely questioning is what scientists do, looking at data. Posting misinformation under the guidance of "concern" is what con artists do. It's damaging to women and especially to pregnant women and their babies.

This. I'd really respect MN if they pointed out that the anti vaxx movement has been identified by WHO as one of the 10 biggest threats to global health and cracked down on anti vaxx posts

@ATerrorofLeftovers It’s not so cut and dried.

Some aspects of some vaccines aren't, no. But it's not just about the covid vaccine. It's also about people still repeating proven lies about other vaccines and autism, for example. Why do we need to give demonstrable bullshit the time of day? Life is too short.

You absolutely don’t have to give it the time of day. Scroll on by if you don’t want to give it attention. Or dispute it with the facts if that’s more important to you.

What you don’t get to do is shut others down every time you don’t like what they have to say. That is incredibly controlling and I’m getting increasingly disturbed by the amount of people who apparently have started to think they get to censor what others post or write about.

It appears to be coming from a self-righteous sense of their own rightness and gets dressed up as concern for others (‘spreading misinformation’), but is actually, at its root, incredibly controlling. We don’t live in a totalitarian state and, even if we did, you’re not in charge. Learn to accept others have different views. And that even if you think they’re wrong, they’re still allowed to hold them.

See, I think a talk forum should be a platform for users to air their views, not for its owners to control and dictate content. Do you really not see the dangers of bubbles getting narrower and narrower? Content being more and more tightly censored and controlled. Who gets to dictate what I or others read? And who voted to give them that power?

It’s one thing to point out the dangers of listening to anti-vaccine rhetoric, and quoting the WHO about this would be fine. Quite another to delete content that disputes official party lines. That’s dangerous. Those of us a bit longer in the tooth know exactly where that can lead and, believe me, we don’t want to go there.

I don’t seek out threads about the vaccines, as I don’t have a strong opinion on them, but when I have seen conversations, I’ve noticed other posters really going for it to post lots of compelling evidence in favour of vaccines. It appears to be really well self-policed by users. I never see posts raising concerns about vaccines being left unbalanced. If anything, I see a lot of suspicion when people post personal experiences that don’t chime with ‘vaccines are always good’, eg someone posts about their health problems following vaccination and this is followed by a lot more posts either troll hunting, or pointing out that catching Covid would likely be worse. It all seems to be working well on here, to me.

I was always going to take any vaccine offered due to my vulnerability and indeed I will have my 6th or 7th dose soon (I've lost count).

I think it was hoped that the vaccine would stop you getting covid and that it would reduce transmission. Both of those were later found to be wrong, it's much more like a flu vaccine that is imperfect but still has efficacy. If there had been transparancy about this at the start I think the anti vax lobby would have had less ammunition. We grew up expecting that the polio vaccine would stop us catching polio. And it did.

What worries me most about this is that take up of routine childhood vaccines have reduced because of general mistrust and misinformation fueled by those who are against all vaccines.

@ATerrorofLeftovers gosh, you're making a lot of unpleasant, wrong accusations about me there. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that I think you've mistaken me for someone else, and leave you to it because i wouldn't want to deprive you of your basic human right to be wrong on the Internet.

@PeonyFairy What worries me most about this is that take up of routine childhood vaccines have reduced because of general mistrust and misinformation fueled by those who are against all vaccines.

This. This is where the "just scroll past" argument falls apart. Challenging doesn't work either because this type of misinformation distribution is done in bad faith, not in the interests of debate or balance. Fear is a massively effective tool for the misinformation mission. And that is manipulation. That is controlling.

Again, questioning things is good; deliberately spreading hate-filled lies that put people's health in danger is bad.

Oh dear. Unpleasant, wrong accusations about you? I’m a bit confused. What would those be, exactly? What have I accused you of? Wishing to control what others post is the only thing I can think of, but that’s exactly what you were calling for!! So what are you upset about?

For the record, I’m not an anti-vaxxer. But I really do believe people do have the right to be wrong, including on the internet. You don’t seem to see the importance of this. But perhaps you haven’t fully thought through the implications of what you’re calling for, as you really don’t seem to like it when it’s pointed out to you!

@ATerrorofLeftovers again, I think you're mistaking me for someone else. You're free to continue being wrong about a stranger online if you wish, but I doubt its going to change anyone's mind about anything.

I continue to call out anti vaxxers who post misinformation. They have no evidence to back up their claims - there was one earlier about hospital admissions for vaccinated v non vaccinated. They make it up and argue against the evidence from hospital records on admissions.

I don’t know who you are, I’m just responding to what you’re posting.

It’s great that you’re calling this out with facts and figures, rather than just trying to silence people. It’s the attempted silencing that causes distrust of official information / facts that demonstrate the overall worth and efficacy of vaccines.

@ATerrorofLeftovers again, you're mistaken. Enjoy your day.

It’s you who is mistaken. You haven’t thought things through. Enjoy your day.

I’m actually pleased MN is slightly more balanced now. I was appalled at the censorship during covid. You couldn’t even query any aspect of the vaccine programme without censorship and the questions were valid

What worries me most about this is that take up of routine childhood vaccines have reduced because of general mistrust and misinformation fueled by those who are against all vaccines

The co ercion to have the Covid vaccines also had a part to play.

I am thrilled I managed to avoid the vaccine for my very young teen DD.
Especially as she had had covid.

Absloutely delighted. For some reason posters get so angry about my choice.
Glad Mumsnet is taking the view that we have the right to express opinion seriously.

Also, I found it so odd that in the UK, despite DD being "vaxxed" to the hilt for all normal childhood illnesses, I was an "antivaxer". Bizarre.

Opinions aren't the issue. It's lies and agenda-driven scaremongering that are the problem.

Ultimately, MN is a private company that has talk guidelines. If people want a no-holes-barred, free-for-all internet forum where there are no limits on what can be posted, there are plenty of others available, and some of them would really welcome those sort of posts.

@adriftabroad Im child free by choice but im also a mother. Just to demonstrate how stupid it is to call someone who had had vaccines an anti vaxxer

You’re quite right, MN is a private organisation with its own rules. I think, on the whole, MN have got moderation about right on vaccines. It was the OP who wanted MN to change their stance away from free speech. Those of us in favour of free speech aren’t the ones asking for change.