Quite a few aggressive vaccine denying threads lately...

[mathanxiety]

Is there some sort of concerted campaign afoot? I've noticed a few threads recently, all along the same lines. Very dog whistley...

I don't think they ever stated it would stop you getting it because no vaccine can do that. It can help, sure but when you get the flu jab they don't say 'that's it you're all covered, you definitely won't get flu'..

So mumsnet supports anti-vax bullshit then. Vaccines reduced the severity of disease and reduced transmission. They were especially important for pregnant women since covid in pregnancy could lead to baby and/or mother loss.

But that just isn't true. We've grown up in a world where vaccines do stop infection.

Smallpox eradicated by vaccine

Polio, measles , mumps, rubella, hepatitis all stopped by vaccine.

Gaslighting doesn't help. I've always vaccinated against everything, but I'm more cynical now

I think there are some big jumps here from what mums-net are saying and how it’s been interpreted. Why wouldn’t you review what happened during the pandemic, plus question it; that’s how we learn to improve.
Plus Vax or Anti-Vax that’s freedom of choice, regardless what anyone else says or thinks.

Agree @DonnaDonna0 an accepted group think helps no one.

Since everyone had the choice to get the Covid vaccine, it's fine for people to discuss their fears and concerns.

What should absolutely not be tolerated is any mention of MMR and Autism. The only link between them is a criminal shit stirrer who fed his ego on creating fear.

Parents gave their consent for their child to be immunised and then had to live with years of fear that their decision had caused their child a life-changing disability.

Unforgivable.

What do you mean by ‘vaccine denying’? Do you mean they’re denying it exists? if so, I’ve not seen any posts in that vein.
I’ve seen some posts where posters are sceptical as to whether the vaccine should have been rolled out so quickly, and questioning its efficacy, but as far as I can tell they’re not ‘denying’ anything?

@Whichjab I do partly agree with you on that- the word vaccine tends to be linked in our heads with 'you won't get it' as you say polio, smallpox etc- I'm not sure the take up would have been that great amongst under 50s if they said at the beginning, 'might lessen your chances of being seriously very ill , but won't stop you getting it and carries its own risks too

I had some weird side effects after the3rd one , and I regret having the 4th- that's when I started with neurological issues but as I've said before I got covid too just after- so it could be one or the other

i think this is total rubbish. We saw death rates drop massively in the vaccinated and ICUs full of the unvaccinated. While you may be a healthy under fifty with not much chance of serious consequences there are thousands who aren’t so lucky.

That's why I said over 50's and people under 50 with underlying medical conditions should've had it. Not that I believe that it was the jabs that improved things massively. The virus mutated into a less deadly variant so things naturally would have got better, vaccine or not.

this is what happened before the vaccine rollout. Never forget the millions who died. Sounds like you would have preferred no vaccine, let millions die and then just wait and see what happened?

https://northeastlondon.icb.nhs.uk/news/almost-90-of-patients-admitted-to-intensive-care-units-in-north-east-london-are-not-fully-vaccinated/

the medical evidence (worldwide) disputes your statement

All I know is that a lot of my friends really wish they hadn't had all the vaccines - numerous problems caused since by then for them.

I didn't have them. Feeling very relieved I didn't. I did catch Covid twice (second time no symptoms other than a positive test result) but the first time left me were severe exhaustion and some muscle problems which I still have. Personally for me, I just didn't see the point of having a vaccine when I already had natural immunity.

I do think it's odd that that I was bombarded for months to get the vaccine and now - silence. Absolutely nothing.

I didn't start this thread to invite comments on the vaccines.

Thanks.

Yes, I'm getting pretty tired of the attitude of MNHQ on this topic too.

It's as if they are blithely unaware of the existence of QAnon and the massive disinformation campaign against the vaccines, against science in general, etc. that is being waged.

@VanillaImpulse

You are massively, absolutely, ridiculously wrong. As wrong as it's possible for anyone to be. What you're posting here is utter drivel. A link has been posted to show you how wrong you are.

Now that you've been corrected, are you going to stop posting this nonsense?

@MNHQ - maybe take note of any response?

I support the MNHQ stance on this - and I don’t think they always get their moderation right, but I think they are on this. Given the mass vaccine programme, and the huge impact of the pandemic, I don’t see the amount of posts as out of the ordinary, or anything to be concerned abou. If anything, having thought about it as a result of this thread, I’m a little surprised there’s not much chat about it and it’s as quiet as it is..

I support free speech. It’s incredibly important and to be guarded fiercely. Given this is currently being eroded across the English speaking world, I’d be even less inclined to support anything restricting people’s right to express their views than I am usually. Not allowing threads and posts questioning vaccines would deny free speech indefensibly.

It’s very important people are not shut down on this. Apart from anything else, when people get a suspicion they are being censored, it tends to entrench their views and convince them even more that there’s something to a conspiracy.

If free speech is important to the peddlers of vaccine denial they can go and set up their own outlets to spread their pernicious message.

Oh wait...

There is no obligation on the part of a third party (MN) to play host to opinions that are proven to be a crock of horse shit, or other opinions repudiated by civilised society - anti semitism, racism, Holocaust denial, posts advocating the views of the Tate bros, posts promoting the view that incest is perfectly normal and a good idea and doesn't hurt children, and so on.

Gosh, do you really put the uneasiness of lots of people over the Covid vaccine in the same category as holocaust denial and incest?! That seems hugely over dramatic to me.

For a start, it’s not illegal to decide against taking up a vaccine offer. Secondly, you’ve made a false equivalence, e.g incest is always harmful. Vaccines are positive or neutral the vast, vast majority of the time, but very very occasionally do cause harm. It’s not so cut and dried.

Virtually none of this true.

All vaccines, like all evidence-based medicine, have widely-available stats on adverse effects. Unlike ‘alternative medicine’, the scientific paradigm requires it.

You really need to read more about the development the Covid vaccines including the stages of development and the history of decades of research that went into them. Sharing an incorrect opinion you’ve pulled out of your arse is quite embarrassing, surely.

Anyone looking at current data, it was published at 516 deaths last week with an uptake of 65.6% on the age 50+ booster.
So of course we should be reviewing the vaccine and how we managed the pandemic.

I don't understand why people are refusing to grasp that there is a difference between asking genuine questions out of genuine concern, and deliberately and repeatedly spreading misinformation (I.e. lying with an agenda). Why don't people get this? How can it be made more clear for them? What purpose is denial serving?

Basically: Chat shit, get harangued 🤷🏻‍♀️

@mathanxiety - yep,BBC should take note too instead of feeling everybody needs to be represented and if they are a crackpot AND entertaining, make sure you give them lots of airtime.