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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

MNHQ

The Sex topic - an update on moderation

465 replies

YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet · 01/03/2023 09:43

Hi everyone.

Thanks for all your comments over the past week regarding the Sex board. It’s become clear from the discussion that we needed a rethink about our approach to this part of the site and so we’re going to introduce some rules to help ensure that posters can get the support and advice they need from the board and that everyone has clear expectations of the behaviour we expect.

Posters must be at least 18 years of age - Mumsnet has always been a site for adults but we want to be crystal clear about this for this board.

The board is text based - we don’t allow NSFW (not safe for work) images.

We don’t allow links to any NSFW sites or personal profiles on other sites

We will not tolerate creepy or harassing behaviour in particular from male posters

We’ve also had concerns raised about the ongoing ‘sex chat threads’ including the risks involved with allowing users to PM each other. Our approach has always been to allow consenting adults to make their own judgement when it comes to what they’ll share and, broadly, that is still the case across the site - but we acknowledge there are additional vulnerabilities here that we ought to consider.

With that in mind, we will no longer allow users to ask for or to offer to send PMs for the purposes of sex chat. For one thing, we can’t guarantee that the person you’re chatting with is who they say they are and we can’t realistically safeguard these kind of off-board discussions. We’ve looked at the moderation principles of similar boards on other sites and this is indeed the policy on several others.

We’d also like to address some of your other comments if we may. Last year we reduced the time required from joining to posting on Sex from 90 days to seven. We’ve no plans to change this at the moment because this timeframe has proved to be a sufficient deterrent to bad actors and we believe that 90 days is too long if you’re a new user with a genuine concern. We’d also like to be clear that our commercial partnerships have had zero bearing on any changes we’ve made (nor did anyone ask us to make changes) and MNHQ does not (and would never) post affiliate links to products under the guise of a regular MNer. We may be many things, but we are not underhand!

As with everything, we’ll continue to monitor the situation and we hope these new rules will go some way to reassure you. If anyone has further questions, please post here and we’ll do our best to answer them.

Thanks.

OP posts:
LangClegsInSpace · 01/03/2023 19:28

Mermaidparades · 01/03/2023 19:18

@LangClegsInSpace I apologised last night for not reporting unwanted messages, and I said I would do so in future. However it’s not up to me to set any standards here.

I wasn't referring to any individual.

It's up to all of us to set standards here. That's how post-moderation works.

I'm not keen on the new 'Mumsnet is an adult site' direction but I've always understood it to be a site for grownups.

Mermaidparades · 01/03/2023 19:28

I view the messages like being in a nightclub and a guy comes over to make a move. I’m able to politely decline his advances, it’s ok and no one was harmed. That’s why it didn’t occur to me to report. But I know that I’m expected to do more now, so I will

LangClegsInSpace · 01/03/2023 19:34

Why would you imagine that a parenting website would be a suitable place to behave as if you are in a nightclub?

Lmonaid · 01/03/2023 19:34

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the user's request

HaroldsHoodie · 01/03/2023 19:37

It's up to each of us to set standards here. That's how a mutual space works.
True, we don't personally get to make up the rules, but we absolutely do each do our bit to make up what this space stands for. The standards we accept and perpetuate, directly or indirectly, dictate the tone and feel of this space.

(not directed at any individual)

MNHQ is on very thin ice with me, and more than a few other women I have spoken to here.

They may not care, of course, and that's fine - I don't kid myself that I'm anything more than just one insignificant cog in the wheel. I've stayed through thick and thin so far, with some extended breaks that could have become permanent, but I will not stay any longer unless I personally agree with values imbued by the owners and leadership of this site. This time if I decide to go it will be permanent.

I have boycotted many companies and brands in my life, many at huge inconvenience, and stuck to it with an iron will; I can easily do so with MN. They won't get on more click.

Mermaidparades · 01/03/2023 19:38

@LangClegsInSpace people come here for all reasons! People take time off parenting to look at Style and Beauty too! I have not posted my details on the Sex Chat thread and no one from there has sent unsolicited messages. My boundaries have been respected.

LucyLeave · 01/03/2023 19:38

Mermaidparades · 01/03/2023 19:28

I view the messages like being in a nightclub and a guy comes over to make a move. I’m able to politely decline his advances, it’s ok and no one was harmed. That’s why it didn’t occur to me to report. But I know that I’m expected to do more now, so I will

But MN is not a nightclub. It's a parenting site and if women want to ask for advice on sex related matters then there is no way on earth a man should feel it's okay to approach her by PM.

So that's the problem with the sex board and you as a woman minimising it only makes the sex board unusable for every one else except a few who think it's not a big deal

It is a big deal though.

Mermaidparades · 01/03/2023 19:40

@LucyLeave i really am the worst woman ever.

beastlyslumber · 01/03/2023 19:41

I think that's where I'm at, too. If they insist on hosting a hook up thread, then MN is no longer supporting mums.

They are making it clear that they care more about men being able to cheat and sleaze on women than they do about mums.

They care more about men being able to post their CSA fantasies than they care about kids.

I don't understand how they have got to this point, but that's clearly where they're at.

BIWI · 01/03/2023 19:42

I view the messages like being in a nightclub and a guy comes over to make a move. I’m able to politely decline his advances, it’s ok and no one was harmed. That’s why it didn’t occur to me to report. But I know that I’m expected to do more now, so I will

JFC @Mermaidparades Is this genuinely how you see Mumsnet? WTF do you think this site is for?

You can be as supposedly self-deprecating as you pretend to be. But really? Is this genuinely what you think?

Mistymoonsinastarrysky · 01/03/2023 19:43

Bamboux · 01/03/2023 18:36

@HornyBee
I have had a lot of pms and none of them start out explicit. It's always 'hi do you want yo chat' or them introducing themselves. Nobody comes straight in with a dick pic. Nobody would appreciate that. There is nothing explicit that would offend anyone.

It offends me, because this isn't meant to be a site for pathetic, horny men desperate to exchange crappy illiterate messages with anyone claiming to be a woman. Before sending 'dick pics'.

It offends me, because this site is FULL of women in terrible pain dealing with the aftermath of shitty men like this doing exactly this shit.

It offends me, because it's seedy and stupid and crude, and because there's an entire internet out there, full of people who are so desperate for pretend sexual contact that they will exchange this sort of effluent with equally desperate strangers should go and do it somewhere else.

It offends me because it makes a mockery of every single thing that made MN good - it being an almost entirely female space, its wit, intelligence, humour, empathy, its distinct voice, its cynical, critical attitude to the sort of male-dominated crap that's forced on us everywhere else.

It's an either/or for me.

I totally agree.
I cannot understand for one second wtf MNHQ are thinking of.
Welcome to Sexymumsnet where women don’t count and neither do their concerns.

BIWI · 01/03/2023 19:44

I used to always think that I understood what 'NITS' meant.

Now I'm not sure at all. If the sex chat thread is allowed to stand, then what IS 'the spirit of Mumsnet'?

OutOfThisState · 01/03/2023 19:44

If people view mumsnet like a nightclub, that explains a lot. I’m not sure mumsnet themselves would like their site to be thought of that way. Maybe@YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet, this is something you should think about.

HornyBee · 01/03/2023 19:44

BIWI · 01/03/2023 19:27

@HornyBee

I have had a lot of pms and none of them start out explicit. It's always 'hi do you want yo chat' or them introducing themselves. Nobody comes straight in with a dick pic. Nobody would appreciate that. There is nothing explicit that would offend anyone.
It's no different to some well meaning busy bodies that message me off the back of posts from other parts of the site. I didn't ask anyone to pm me there but that's ok is it? Because it wasn't off the back of the sex topic? Or does anyone who sends someone a pm they didn't ask for get banned?

I have also ignored 99% of my pms from the sex chat and nobody has ever pestered or harassed me. They message a non sexual introduction, I ignore it, end of.

You really don't get it, do you? Nobody on MN should be getting PMs like this. Mumsnet isn't a hook-up site and we shouldn't have to be ignoring PMs like this.

I think your standards are set at a very, very low bar.

I asked for men to pm me on the sex chat thread. The men did nothing wrong. It wasnt unsolicited.
Your point is pervy men shouldn't pm women who don't invite them to.
My point is women shouldn't pm other women in other areas of the site when the women haven't invited pms.
A guy sending a pm with advice from the sex topic is no different to a woman sending a pm with advice from the parenting topic. An unwelcome pm is an unwelcome pm regardless of who is sending it and from which topic of the site.

(Or your point is people shouldn't be requesting or sending pms about sex with each other...but that's got nothing to do with the point I was making so is completely irrelevant.)

ProbablyNotAGoodIdea · 01/03/2023 19:46

@Mermaidparades thanks for reporting them going forward. Please don't resign yourself to the whole world being a sleazy nightclub for men; I know a lot of it is but we really can hope to have (and had!) a corner of it where it isn't. Also my phone is doing a weird bold glitch and I can't make it stop.

RainbowZebraWarrior · 01/03/2023 19:48

"A guy sending a pm with advice from the sex topic is no different to a woman sending a pm with advice from the parenting topic"

It really is not the same. At all.

LucyLeave · 01/03/2023 19:49

The sex board was set up for people to discuss sex problems. The fact it's turned into some sleazy hook up board is what MNHQ need to sort out. I think it's too late for that though.

LangClegsInSpace · 01/03/2023 19:50

Mermaidparades · 01/03/2023 19:38

@LangClegsInSpace people come here for all reasons! People take time off parenting to look at Style and Beauty too! I have not posted my details on the Sex Chat thread and no one from there has sent unsolicited messages. My boundaries have been respected.

Yes, we all have different reasons for posting here. My kids flew the nest years ago and I'm no longer here for parenting advice.

Nevertheless, there is a shared understanding that this is a parenting site that centres parents, especially mothers, and children. Most, but not all topics are compatible with that.

I'm pleased your boundaries have been respected but I'm sure you appreciate that the average poster on a parenting forum will have boundaries that are in a different place, and so should MNHQ if they want this to continue being a parenting forum.

Bamboux · 01/03/2023 19:51

RainbowZebraWarrior · 01/03/2023 19:48

"A guy sending a pm with advice from the sex topic is no different to a woman sending a pm with advice from the parenting topic"

It really is not the same. At all.

This leapt out at me too, but I honestly didn't know how to even start to respond to it. It's so obviously and horrendously wrong.

A woman who genuinely believes that must be a woman who has NEVER been on the receiving end of unwanted sexual harassment in her entire life. And I've never met a woman who that applies to.

OutOfThisState · 01/03/2023 19:51

A guy sending a pm with advice from the sex topic is no different to a woman sending a pm with advice from the parenting topic. An unwelcome pm is an unwelcome pm regardless of who is sending it and from which topic of the site.

I wouldn’t send a PM to anyone about anything without asking.

However, I do not believe for a second that you think all PMs are equal.

HaroldsHoodie · 01/03/2023 19:52

A guy sending a pm with advice from the sex topic is no different to a woman sending a pm with advice from the parenting topic.

This simply is not true. Do not equate the two. One is a matter of potential bad etiquette. The other is creepy and intrusive. It does not matter whether some women think it's fine and would welcome it.

Other than that I agree wholeheartedly with what @ProbablyNotAGoodIdea said above:

Please don't resign yourself to the whole world being a sleazy nightclub for men; I know a lot of it is but we really can hope to have (and had!) a corner of it where it isn't.

I think I'm done talking about this. I'll wait to see answers to some of the extremely important questions being asked here.

HornyBee · 01/03/2023 19:58

RainbowZebraWarrior · 01/03/2023 19:48

"A guy sending a pm with advice from the sex topic is no different to a woman sending a pm with advice from the parenting topic"

It really is not the same. At all.

Please explain why. Because I genuinely don't understand.

SoonToBeQueenCamilla · 01/03/2023 20:03

BIWI · 01/03/2023 17:23

So, stepping back a little bit for a macro view of all of this. Given your tie ups with Ann Summers and Smile Makers @YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet and @JustineMumsnet, what's the longer term 'direction of travel' for Mumsnet?

Is the move towards more sexually explicit content and posting something you have included in your latest business plan, to grow revenue and user numbers? Are you targeting a different demographic now?

None of this - to me - sits comfortably with a site which was set up to be 'By parents, for parents'. There are plenty of places on the internet where people can look for no-strings sex talk or sex. Why does Mumsnet have to expand into that arena?

I feel that you have listened to some of the points being raised by other posters - your content providers - but you haven't really heard. Or perhaps you're listening to a different kind of user now?

This.

Surplus2requirements · 01/03/2023 20:04

One of the very best things about MN is there is no place for predatory men.

On open boards and via PM (if reported) its severely moderated, including the sex board as it should be. One false move and they're gone.

If only the real world was like that

monsteramunch · 01/03/2023 20:04

@HornyBee

A man sending an unsolicited private message to a poster about something as intimate and personal as a sex issue, when he could either ask first or simply share his thoughts in the public thread a poster initially wrote on, is likely to feel unsettling and intrusive.

A poster sending an unsolicited private message about something like which a level revision guide / buggy etc is best isn't going to be unsettling and is unlikely to feel intrusive.

Surely you see the difference?