The Sex topic - an update on moderation

[YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet]

Hi everyone.

Thanks for all your comments over the past week regarding the Sex board. It’s become clear from the discussion that we needed a rethink about our approach to this part of the site and so we’re going to introduce some rules to help ensure that posters can get the support and advice they need from the board and that everyone has clear expectations of the behaviour we expect.

Posters must be at least 18 years of age - Mumsnet has always been a site for adults but we want to be crystal clear about this for this board.

The board is text based - we don’t allow NSFW (not safe for work) images.

We don’t allow links to any NSFW sites or personal profiles on other sites

We will not tolerate creepy or harassing behaviour in particular from male posters

We’ve also had concerns raised about the ongoing ‘sex chat threads’ including the risks involved with allowing users to PM each other. Our approach has always been to allow consenting adults to make their own judgement when it comes to what they’ll share and, broadly, that is still the case across the site - but we acknowledge there are additional vulnerabilities here that we ought to consider.

With that in mind, we will no longer allow users to ask for or to offer to send PMs for the purposes of sex chat. For one thing, we can’t guarantee that the person you’re chatting with is who they say they are and we can’t realistically safeguard these kind of off-board discussions. We’ve looked at the moderation principles of similar boards on other sites and this is indeed the policy on several others.

We’d also like to address some of your other comments if we may. Last year we reduced the time required from joining to posting on Sex from 90 days to seven. We’ve no plans to change this at the moment because this timeframe has proved to be a sufficient deterrent to bad actors and we believe that 90 days is too long if you’re a new user with a genuine concern. We’d also like to be clear that our commercial partnerships have had zero bearing on any changes we’ve made (nor did anyone ask us to make changes) and MNHQ does not (and would never) post affiliate links to products under the guise of a regular MNer. We may be many things, but we are not underhand!

As with everything, we’ll continue to monitor the situation and we hope these new rules will go some way to reassure you. If anyone has further questions, please post here and we’ll do our best to answer them.

Thanks.

The rule(s) you come up with can, and should, be applicable elsewhere on the site, too, of course.

What I'm saying is, a clear statement on what is not allowed should be put up on that topic, and in my view that should include descriptions of.

This. You have purposefully by allowing sex chat threads made a sex advice topic into a sexy chat topic. There is a difference between the two and personally I don't believe that underage sex has any place on a sexy chat topic especially when relying on the sexy chatters to moderate.

@TangledUpInDreams @CrotchetyCrocheting we do see where you're coming from. We'll have a discussion about this.

Just chipping back in to say I agree with @TangledUpInDreams and @CrotchetyCrocheting re. CSA issues.
Also supporting what Crotchety said about the rules applying to the rest of the site, please.

Really glad you're ending sex chat, it had no place here. I doubt many women will feel comfortable posting genuine threads about sex in amongst the other threads - eg one where two blokes are talking about how much use their fleshlights can take before dissolving, it's not really a female friendly space over there but hopefully these changes will help to shift the tone and chase off the seedy PMers. Thanks for addressing it.

We will no longer allow users to ask for or to offer to send PMs for the purposes of sex chat

Although I welcome this, how are you going to monitor this though, @YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet?

I completely agree with you all too. I think a lot of damage has been done by putting the Sex thread in Active and it’s seen as an opportunity for insalubrious individuals to join in. A great pity. Unfortunately it now relies on the thread contributors to report - that’s not going to happen when their there for the sex chat!

I think it’s too little too late personally. Who on earth ever thought it was a good idea!?

I would like confirmation from MNHQ that according to your moderation standards men (or women, but let's face it, it'll be men) sending unsolicited PMs about intimate issues such as, to use a recent example, sex and ejaculation is absolutely unacceptable and that even if some women would apparently welcome these, the many, many women who don't want it and would not welcome it have an absolute right not to be bothered by creepy men. And that doing so is definitely creepy and intrusive, whether 'meant' that way or not.

Further, that there is no situation in which a man's wish to send such a PM, however that wish might be dressed up, trumps the woman in question's right to be left well alone by said man.

I would like MNHQ to state this straight out, so that its users who think that apparently such unsolicited PMs are not so bad, understand that this behaviour is not acceptable on this site, however much they don't mind it.

Mumsnet is, AFAIK, still supposed to be a haven for women and a place to gain support, advice, a sense of safety in this community - and a place where women's voices around matters of consent are heard and respected.

I think the whole board should be deleted and replaced with something much better - someone suggested calling it women's sexual health and wellbeing I think. I don't think the board can possibly be what MN envisage now, so much damage done as you say. But in lieu of that, I support these changes as at least not making things worse.

Yes, I'm really uneasy that posts dismissing the ejaculation PM as 'just trying to help' and the outrage as being 'a hysterical fuss' were allowed to stand. Posters minimising, gaslighting and mocking victims of sexual harassment should be stopped.

Also the sex chat thread is still there, will it be deleted?

I'm so glad that Mn have been reviewing this and taking concerns seriously.

I do think the idea of deleting the board and creating a new one as per the suggestion quoted is a good idea. A clean slate with a board really targeted at helping women with any sexual health or well being issues would be something I think that most people would be on board with.

A clean slate with a board really targeted at helping women with any sexual health or well being issues would be something I think that most people would be on board with.

Excellent idea. Please do consider this MN

I agree with this. And far more in keeping with mn.

Thank you @YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet and thanks for considering the further points people are raising.

As has been said, relying on reports from users of the topic, when most of us who don't use the topic have it hidden, means that you can't rely on reports flagging up valid concerns. Same goes for PMs.

Might I suggest you consider extra monitoring of the topic by MNHQ, also random checking of PMs to ensure rules are being adhered to?

I realise this would mean extra work for your team, but I think it would reassure those of us who have expressed our concerns and also help avoid anything like this situation occurring in the future. It might also help to deter the sleazy types who would hopefully go elsewhere to get their jollies if they knew they were likely to get busted.

Thank you again and thanks to all the mods, I don't doubt it's been very difficult to deal with all the reports and fall-out

It's always been the case that MNers can (and do) report PMs and if someone was found to be abusing the feature, we're very likely to ban them.

We welcome any poster, male or female, who is here in good faith. Anyone sending dodgy messages is unlikely to be here for the right reasons.

We'd also ask that you do not troll hunt on the boards if you have suspicions about a poster - always report to us always in these cases, please. You may not be aware that we read and respond to every report. Thanks.

Have I missed an update somewhere on if it's staying in Active?

This seems a sensible balance. I would not support the deletion of the sex topic and it’s replacement with something which implied you could only discuss health. That strays too far into morality policing.

I would ask the MN Towers also keep an eye on the practice of people maliciously shutting down any bi/lesbian/ENM chat with troll hunting and weird accusations. Is bi women do exist too!

(Sorry, random ‘is’ there)

Thank you for your reply, but for clarity's sake, I would like you to confirm that this is not acceptable behaviour on Mumsnet according to the principles you apply when you decide on these matters. It's not a difficult question to answer.

Is it fair and correct to say that according to MNHQ's moderation standards and the values of your brand which you imbue into this space, an unsolicited PM from a man about intimate matters such as sex/ejaculation is creepy and intrusive?

Is it acceptable behaviour on this site or not?

we will no longer allow users to ask for or to offer to send PMs for the purposes of sex chat. For one thing, we can’t guarantee that the person you’re chatting with is who they say they are and we can’t realistically safeguard these kind of off-board discussions.

So how are we going to make contact with fresh people if I can't say that I would like a PM from say a Bi woman?
Will I get PMs from mostly Straight men or Women then filter myself.
That would be tedious!
Or have I got the 'wrong end of this stick'. Which can happen.

(again, any rules for men will apply to women too, I'm sure)

You go to fetlife or fab swingers or any of the other many many hook up sites.

MN is (thankfully) no longer the place for that.

@YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet - firstly - thank you, and thanks to MNHQ for listening to people's concerns.

Secondly, can I suggest that things are reviewed after a couple of months, to see if the new guidelines outlined here have stopped the problems that people have been having with the Sex topic recently.

In particular, it might be worth reviewing the reduction of the wait of 90 days until you can post on the topic to 7 days - to see if that still prevents 'bad acts/bad actors' from misusing the topic.