The Sex topic - an update on moderation

[YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet]

Hi everyone.

Thanks for all your comments over the past week regarding the Sex board. It’s become clear from the discussion that we needed a rethink about our approach to this part of the site and so we’re going to introduce some rules to help ensure that posters can get the support and advice they need from the board and that everyone has clear expectations of the behaviour we expect.

Posters must be at least 18 years of age - Mumsnet has always been a site for adults but we want to be crystal clear about this for this board.

The board is text based - we don’t allow NSFW (not safe for work) images.

We don’t allow links to any NSFW sites or personal profiles on other sites

We will not tolerate creepy or harassing behaviour in particular from male posters

We’ve also had concerns raised about the ongoing ‘sex chat threads’ including the risks involved with allowing users to PM each other. Our approach has always been to allow consenting adults to make their own judgement when it comes to what they’ll share and, broadly, that is still the case across the site - but we acknowledge there are additional vulnerabilities here that we ought to consider.

With that in mind, we will no longer allow users to ask for or to offer to send PMs for the purposes of sex chat. For one thing, we can’t guarantee that the person you’re chatting with is who they say they are and we can’t realistically safeguard these kind of off-board discussions. We’ve looked at the moderation principles of similar boards on other sites and this is indeed the policy on several others.

We’d also like to address some of your other comments if we may. Last year we reduced the time required from joining to posting on Sex from 90 days to seven. We’ve no plans to change this at the moment because this timeframe has proved to be a sufficient deterrent to bad actors and we believe that 90 days is too long if you’re a new user with a genuine concern. We’d also like to be clear that our commercial partnerships have had zero bearing on any changes we’ve made (nor did anyone ask us to make changes) and MNHQ does not (and would never) post affiliate links to products under the guise of a regular MNer. We may be many things, but we are not underhand!

As with everything, we’ll continue to monitor the situation and we hope these new rules will go some way to reassure you. If anyone has further questions, please post here and we’ll do our best to answer them.

Thanks.

I mean the bit MNHQ have put here

We will no longer allow users to ask for or to offer to send PMs for the purposes of sex chat.

I think if they added that to the opening post, it would save having to delete a whole thread.

Just a suggestion really.

Quoting this in case you missed my follow-up @YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet.

What exactly is it that you think men message?
I have had a lot of pms and none of them start out explicit. It's always 'hi do you want yo chat' or them introducing themselves. Nobody comes straight in with a dick pic. Nobody would appreciate that. There is nothing explicit that would offend anyone.
It's no different to some well meaning busy bodies that message me off the back of posts from other parts of the site. I didn't ask anyone to pm me there but that's ok is it? Because it wasn't off the back of the sex topic? Or does anyone who sends someone a pm they didn't ask for get banned?
I have also ignored 99% of my pms from the sex chat and nobody has ever pestered or harassed me. They message a non sexual introduction, I ignore it, end of.

*sex

@HornyBee
I have had a lot of pms and none of them start out explicit. It's always 'hi do you want yo chat' or them introducing themselves. Nobody comes straight in with a dick pic. Nobody would appreciate that. There is nothing explicit that would offend anyone.

It offends me, because this isn't meant to be a site for pathetic, horny men desperate to exchange crappy illiterate messages with anyone claiming to be a woman. Before sending 'dick pics'.

It offends me, because this site is FULL of women in terrible pain dealing with the aftermath of shitty men like this doing exactly this shit.

It offends me, because it's seedy and stupid and crude, and because there's an entire internet out there, full of people who are so desperate for pretend sexual contact that they will exchange this sort of effluent with equally desperate strangers should go and do it somewhere else.

It offends me because it makes a mockery of every single thing that made MN good - it being an almost entirely female space, its wit, intelligence, humour, empathy, its distinct voice, its cynical, critical attitude to the sort of male-dominated crap that's forced on us everywhere else.

It's an either/or for me.

What exactly is the problem with deleting the whole thread? Plenty of other whole threads are deleted across the site for a variety of reasons. There really is nothing worth saving on the Sex Chat hook up thread. Here it is:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/sex/4661305-the-new-improved-sexchat-thread

@Bamboux ugh, grammar fail in one of those paragraphs, but I trust the meaning is clear.

It offends me, because it's seedy and stupid and crude, and because there's an entire internet out there, full of people who are so desperate for pretend sexual contact that they will exchange this sort of effluent with equally desperate strangers. They should go and do it somewhere else.

But they’re already working around this rule if you look at the thread. They’re laughing at the rules, saying things like

‘oh no I definitely don’t want PMs 🤥🤥😂😂’

And of course we have the OP himself saying that PMs will be sent without being requested anyway.

It’s a hook up thread, everyone knows it and mumsnet are now allowing it at the same time as putting rules in place that they know will be by-passed. They can’t pretend to be addressing safeguarding issues and expect any of us to believe them. It’s bollocks.

It's an actual hook up thread. The premise is inviting PMs. How are MN going to monitor and/or safeguard that? (As in, if the thread is allowed to stand)

Why are you quoting me??!
I was replying to something about innocent posters who may post on the sexchat thread and get 'offended' by a pm they didn't ask for.
I wasn't asking why it offends you...but erm.. thanks. Good to know your feelings👍

No problem at all for me personally as I don't use that topic, but I'm guessing the people on that thread would want to keep it?

If so, I just suggested a possible way forward that's all, but as ever it's up to MNHQ.

'It offends me, because this isn't meant to be a site for pathetic, horny men'

They're just consenting adults as are the women who also post there.

Tbh the posters on the sex board are polite and reasonable, something some of the posters on site stuff threads could take note of.

'it being an almost entirely female space, its wit, intelligence, humour, empathy, its distinct voice'

Not sure if you're got rose coloured specs on or have been on the brandy lol but that isn't all mn is. It is a massive site full of a wide range and mix of posters. Everyone has a right to post as long as they adhere to TGs. I find aibu more offensive than the sex board with some of the piles ons and arsiness.

Tbf if the regulars or posters on that thread hadnt immediately started taking the piss out of the new going forward mod stuff, people wouldn't be battling it out in here probably.

Talk about poking the bear.

I agree that thread needs to go. Using mumsnet as a cover to cheat on your partner is properly seedy. I think that's what bothers me the most about it. There are designated sites out there for that stuff. Fill your boots.

With that in mind, we will no longer allow users to ask for or to offer to send PMs for the purposes of sex chat. For one thing, we can’t guarantee that the person you’re chatting with is who they say they are and we can’t realistically safeguard these kind of off-board discussions. We’ve looked at the moderation principles of similar boards on other sites and this is indeed the policy on several others.

Thank you for listening. I will believe you when the sex chat thread is deleted.

Last year we reduced the time required from joining to posting on Sex from 90 days to seven. We’ve no plans to change this at the moment because this timeframe has proved to be a sufficient deterrent to bad actors and we believe that 90 days is too long if you’re a new user with a genuine concern.

I wrote this on another thread: I understand that the time limit was changed about a year ago and I've seen the suggestion that therefore this can't have had an effect. It seems to me that a year of lax standards is about right for word to get around, attracting a different kind of poster, and for the number of these new posters to build to a critical mass where they are no longer contained on the sex topic and are suddenly popping up everywhere around the site.

As others have pointed out, posters with genuine concerns can post in relationships without delay and many prefer to do so because they are more likely to get useful supportive responses, although that has become progressively less likely as the culture of the sex topic has spilled over to the rest of the site.

30 days would be a good compromise.

I'm well aware that not every post on MN has all of those qualities, but there is (or was) a dominant, distinctive voice, that clearly marked out a typical MN thread from a typical Netmums, Reddit, Facebook, Tattle, Daily Mail, Guardian etc. thread.

I trust you're not denying that each of these forums has a different general tone and style and audience?

It was what made the site worth using; it's certainly not the 'user experience' that made it preferable to other forums.

Despite having a small number of impassioned defenders, the threads on the sex board are, on the whole, complete crap. The posts are mostly composed of shit innuendos, poorly disguised adverts, terrible attempts at flirting, and massive overuse of emojis and 'lol'.

They add absolutely nothing to the site, except for clicks and ad revenue, which I assume is why MN is leaving them there. In the process, they will at some point realise that they have destroyed their own brand and lost their appeal to advertisers.

If the sexchat thread stays, what actually has changed @YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet ? Just the way they phrase their requests for PMs? You say you won't tolerate creepy men but endorse a thread riddled with them? What's actually the point of today's update at all?

And also what about all the hundreds of people that got spammed by pm with the link to the new site you've created. That was unsolicited! Many of them didn't ask for a pm or appreciate it and set up a thread on here to complain.
But that was ok wasn't it. Because the message wasn't sent by a man. And we all know that every man on here is a pervert.

'The posts are mostly composed of shit innuendos, poorly disguised adverts, terrible attempts at flirting, and massive overuse of emojis and 'lol'.'

What has made you so judgemental?! Live and let live. If women and men flirt then so what. Mocking emojis and lol it's just so unpleasant.

You can't control everyone on mn, let mnhq do that. Sit down.

but I'm guessing the people on that thread would want to keep it?
And we should pander to them - mainly men - because? They can get what they want from many other much more appropriate sites. MN isn't the place.

The OPs and posters on many MNHQ-deleted threads wanted to keep them up on the site, for good reasons or bad, and yet they still got deleted.

Why in heaven's name is it still up @YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet @JustineMumsnet?

Sit down. What? 😂

I'm not in favour of just one topic on MN needing proactive moderation and I'm not in favour of MNHQ randomly checking PMs (remember that intern who maliciously leaked our data?)

If a topic cannot be adequately moderated through the usual methods then should it be on Mumsnet at all?

I've seen a few sex topic posters say they get loads of creepy PMs but they don't report, they just ignore them because they're not bothered.

If this is you then you are not helping.

You are setting a very low standard of behaviour for the community you are championing. You are doing nothing to help stop those creepy men going on to PM other posters who might be very bothered and upset by it.

Don't be surprised if lots of us object to MN hosting that kind of culture.

@LangClegsInSpace I apologised last night for not reporting unwanted messages, and I said I would do so in future. However it’s not up to me to set any standards here.

If the regular posters who post on the sex topic are getting loads of creepy PMs then surely that proves that any one posting on there is seen as 'up for it' by the creeps who post there.

And yes I agree, if they don't report them then they are not helping to make the sex topic a place any one will want to use.

@YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet you need to delete the sex chat thread and not allow it. It's completely contrary to the ethos of mumsnet, it's impossible to police and prevent either PMs and there are huge safeguarding concerns. And you have no clue who is posting on it at all. And actually you know really why the men on there are posting - it's not to give advice or be supportive is it?! This is a parenting site for women (mostly), that chat is the opposite. There are plenty of places that people can go for sex chat.

And no, I'm not a pearl clutching prude either - I've posted on the sex topic in the past (but really don't want to now - I don't want a man pming me if I've posted asking about my sex life, I don't even want male views if I post on there) - but come on! What on earth are you thinking?

And yes, increase the time limit to 30 days.

@HornyBee

I have had a lot of pms and none of them start out explicit. It's always 'hi do you want yo chat' or them introducing themselves. Nobody comes straight in with a dick pic. Nobody would appreciate that. There is nothing explicit that would offend anyone.
It's no different to some well meaning busy bodies that message me off the back of posts from other parts of the site. I didn't ask anyone to pm me there but that's ok is it? Because it wasn't off the back of the sex topic? Or does anyone who sends someone a pm they didn't ask for get banned?

I have also ignored 99% of my pms from the sex chat and nobody has ever pestered or harassed me. They message a non sexual introduction, I ignore it, end of.

You really don't get it, do you? Nobody on MN should be getting PMs like this. Mumsnet isn't a hook-up site and we shouldn't have to be ignoring PMs like this.

I think your standards are set at a very, very low bar.