The Sex topic - an update on moderation

[YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet]

Hi everyone.

Thanks for all your comments over the past week regarding the Sex board. It’s become clear from the discussion that we needed a rethink about our approach to this part of the site and so we’re going to introduce some rules to help ensure that posters can get the support and advice they need from the board and that everyone has clear expectations of the behaviour we expect.

Posters must be at least 18 years of age - Mumsnet has always been a site for adults but we want to be crystal clear about this for this board.

The board is text based - we don’t allow NSFW (not safe for work) images.

We don’t allow links to any NSFW sites or personal profiles on other sites

We will not tolerate creepy or harassing behaviour in particular from male posters

We’ve also had concerns raised about the ongoing ‘sex chat threads’ including the risks involved with allowing users to PM each other. Our approach has always been to allow consenting adults to make their own judgement when it comes to what they’ll share and, broadly, that is still the case across the site - but we acknowledge there are additional vulnerabilities here that we ought to consider.

With that in mind, we will no longer allow users to ask for or to offer to send PMs for the purposes of sex chat. For one thing, we can’t guarantee that the person you’re chatting with is who they say they are and we can’t realistically safeguard these kind of off-board discussions. We’ve looked at the moderation principles of similar boards on other sites and this is indeed the policy on several others.

We’d also like to address some of your other comments if we may. Last year we reduced the time required from joining to posting on Sex from 90 days to seven. We’ve no plans to change this at the moment because this timeframe has proved to be a sufficient deterrent to bad actors and we believe that 90 days is too long if you’re a new user with a genuine concern. We’d also like to be clear that our commercial partnerships have had zero bearing on any changes we’ve made (nor did anyone ask us to make changes) and MNHQ does not (and would never) post affiliate links to products under the guise of a regular MNer. We may be many things, but we are not underhand!

As with everything, we’ll continue to monitor the situation and we hope these new rules will go some way to reassure you. If anyone has further questions, please post here and we’ll do our best to answer them.

Thanks.

It definitely can go on forever! But my question now is why Mumsnet are hosting a thread that breaks the rules they've just announced and I do think it's fair to expect an answer to that.

And married men looking to cheat via a parenting website do deserve derision and contempt, what else would you feel for them?

I don’t care if the sex chat stays or goes. Not something I read. But I don’t think it’s fair to say that the sex topic should be deleted. The sex topic was a sleepy backwater with a new thread or two, max, a week. People did start dodgy threads - as they do on AIBU - and those were reported/deleted/had no engagement apart from people challenging them. And one challenge and the thread would fizzle.

MN have consistently said that people on the sex threads do report and delete things.

Theres a lot of ‘but if you don’t do what I say X could happen’ on this thread where X hasn’t happened. I think that’s drowning out valid points as people find the hyperbole/what-if-ery/ and fabrications distracting/offensive.

And I'm firmly of the opinion that it should stay.

The same people can argue over and over again for both sides. MN get the choice

@ProbablyNotAGoodIdea that's anecdotal evidence. Show me the stats

@ProbablyNotAGoodIdea I know that my view on this is going to lead to me being infantilised yet again, but ‘dead bedrooms’ and staying married for the sake of the family is a thing. The sexual side of my life is so important to me, I can understand how people become desperate for intimacy and attention to truly feel alive. That isn’t me being a’pick me girl’ . I’m lucky to be in a long term blissful relationship, I do not want to be picked 😄

What do you mean, the stats? Someone on the thread has counted the married men on there. So that's a number to go off. Several women have shared their experience of PMs on the threads - only MN could give you the stats on how many PMs have been reported if you want the actual number though.

Well as the famous quote goes ''You would say that wouldn't you''

I was ambivalent about deleting the thread before - the latest interventions from you and other afficianados haven't really helped your cause [shrug]

It's gone at the moment. I wonder if there will be any changes, positive or negative, to any MN users. It will be interesting to see.

I mean surely @MovingonfromMartin you aren't saying that women's stories of the PMs they've received don't count because they're 'anecdotal evidence'? Because that's ridiculous.

Oh great, not before time!

So the sex chat has gone, the sex board has gone from active. That is surely what posters wanted?

I really hope the argument doesn't now move on to getting rid of the sex topic completely..

Hello everyone - thanks for your comments. Our initial plan was to eventually close the sex chat thread to new posts but we've taken it down this morning based on your feedback here. (Did LOL at Schrodinger's sex chat, @ProbablyNotAGoodIdea.)

We'd also like to address suggestions that we're suddenly 'sexing up' Mumsnet based on commercial partnerships. That's absolutely not the case and we've worked with various brands including Ann Summers and Love Honey for many years, while the Sex board was created several years ago because so many MNers asked us for it. As we've said on a previous thread, we think sex is a pretty integral part of life and has always been part of discussions across the boards. We certainly don't want an environment that encourages sex pests and we hope that, with these new moderation rules, genuine posters can get the advice and information they need.

Many of us have noticed a marked change in tone and feel to comments and interactions on other areas on the board. Myself, for about a year now. Anecdotal, of course. But still a valid observation!

Once a space becomes a male space, tone changes. Dynamics will be markedly different. And no, I’m not going to join the dots on it. You either understand or you don’t. If you don’t, you won’t even if I explain it to you.

I’m also not going to explain why matters around sex might require different rules. Again, you either get it or you don’t.

I’m not going to explain why a gardening or dogs topic is not the same as setting up a space to specifically and openly, with ‘permission’ from the bosses, become about sleaze (at least in part - and I’m not tarring everyone with that brush. But it’s clearly there!) and why the latter is not considered by a whole lot of people to be appropriate on a parenting/women’s forum.

I’m not going to explain why the Sex topic will likely become completely ineffectual at offering its original intended aim. We’ve had clear demonstration of that already this week.

It would be helpful if, once you (the collective you) have apparently benefited from feeling safe to discuss sex/find likeminded people/however the sex chat or topic itself has helped you, you would at least attempt to meet halfway in extending that safety to other women when they say they don’t feel safe, they don’t like being sent creepy and intrusive PMs, and they aren’t comfortable with how men are behaving in this space which has always been predominantly female and predominantly for mothers/women. Some of you have (@Mermaidparades I think? ) but others absolutely have not. And that’s just plain wrong.

This site will change beyond all recognition if it becomes a known vehicle for more and more sleazy men to congregate and find their kicks/engage in their kinks. Some might have no problem with how that changes things. But many, many women will. With very good reason.

Mind you it’s too late now. Whatever MNHQ do to try to mitigate (if they bother to do anything at all) the damage is done.

There are opposing opinions on whether the sex chat/hook up thread(s) should stand. Everyone has a right to their opinion and a right to voice it. What actually happens in that regard is for MNHQ to decide.

However leaving it to stand will make an absolute mockery of any other threads being deleted for ‘not being in the spirit’.

Perhaps MNHQ should just change their moderation policy all together and let everything stand. Since this is a site for grown-ups.

@OneOfEachPlease I may be mistaken but i don’t think anyone is saying the whole topic should be deleted.

This is a massive site. The traffic must be astronomical while I am sorry some people had PM that were unpleasant, causes of these PM are not known.

You have what you want now anyway.

I was referring to PMs specifically related to posts on the sex board @MovingonfromMartin but no, it doesn't matter now in light of the update.

@Janiie in my opinion the topic should definitely stay, and be moderated in such a way that is safe for everyone, especially the posters who use it. I don't have many ideas on what that should look like, that's for better qualified people than me! (By which I mean people who use the topic regularly and have a good understanding of online safety.)

Well done mumsnet, you got there in the end. 👏

@HaroldsHoodie there has been some discussion about wiping the whole board and renaming it, I can't remember where though as there's so many threads

@MeganTheeScallion perhaps MNHQ could get some volunteer moderators
'
maybe Sex Watch a bit like Night Watch

@onirgellep that's an idea! @YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet what do you think?

@onirgellep Sex watch sounds a bit pervy 😬

@onirgellep @MeganTheeScallion we'll have a chat about this! I feel they'd need a special cloak.

A lacy cloak with a masquerade eye mask! Count me in 🥂

@YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet @Mermaidparades @onirgellep Perhaps some sort of...sheath... (I'll get my coat)

@MeganTheeScallion 😂