The Sex topic - an update on moderation

[YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet]

Hi everyone.

Thanks for all your comments over the past week regarding the Sex board. It’s become clear from the discussion that we needed a rethink about our approach to this part of the site and so we’re going to introduce some rules to help ensure that posters can get the support and advice they need from the board and that everyone has clear expectations of the behaviour we expect.

Posters must be at least 18 years of age - Mumsnet has always been a site for adults but we want to be crystal clear about this for this board.

The board is text based - we don’t allow NSFW (not safe for work) images.

We don’t allow links to any NSFW sites or personal profiles on other sites

We will not tolerate creepy or harassing behaviour in particular from male posters

We’ve also had concerns raised about the ongoing ‘sex chat threads’ including the risks involved with allowing users to PM each other. Our approach has always been to allow consenting adults to make their own judgement when it comes to what they’ll share and, broadly, that is still the case across the site - but we acknowledge there are additional vulnerabilities here that we ought to consider.

With that in mind, we will no longer allow users to ask for or to offer to send PMs for the purposes of sex chat. For one thing, we can’t guarantee that the person you’re chatting with is who they say they are and we can’t realistically safeguard these kind of off-board discussions. We’ve looked at the moderation principles of similar boards on other sites and this is indeed the policy on several others.

We’d also like to address some of your other comments if we may. Last year we reduced the time required from joining to posting on Sex from 90 days to seven. We’ve no plans to change this at the moment because this timeframe has proved to be a sufficient deterrent to bad actors and we believe that 90 days is too long if you’re a new user with a genuine concern. We’d also like to be clear that our commercial partnerships have had zero bearing on any changes we’ve made (nor did anyone ask us to make changes) and MNHQ does not (and would never) post affiliate links to products under the guise of a regular MNer. We may be many things, but we are not underhand!

As with everything, we’ll continue to monitor the situation and we hope these new rules will go some way to reassure you. If anyone has further questions, please post here and we’ll do our best to answer them.

Thanks.

Great. I hope we can now leave this happily.

(unless the malicious deleting of ENM/bisexual threads continues)

@YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet

Perhaps there’s call for a second Sex topic.

’Women’s sex and wellbeing: support and advice’ or something like that?

I think if people want to discuss sex as a thing (which I really have no objection to in principle - I love sex and engage in a lot of it, I’ve got a collection of things with which to play, was raised in a very relaxed Scandinavian hippy household, yadda yadda yadda) I’ve no issues with that per se, barring the objections and reservations I’ve already gone into at length so I’ll spare everyone. I have absolutely no problem with highly sexed women or women who like to discuss what they like to do (or don’t like to do!) nor with respectful, decent men who don’t trample over women’s boundaries.

But for women who might not want to have to wade through all that, and might not want to have to deal with the sorts of men that is going to attract, then for advice/problems/health questions or worries they’ve got it’s probably better that there's somewhere else where women can go if they want to ask questions around sex rather than discuss the act itself.

I’m so glad for the posters who were fundamentally opposed to the chat thread and equally
so sad for those who found benefit from it. 💖 to all

Thank you @YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet

Yes thank you @YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet. I'm really glad that thread's gone.

There we are then. Normal service resumed. The site is now free of perverts and nobody will ever receive an unsolicited PM ever again.
Good result all round I'd say 👍

Thank you @YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet thanks for listening and for being willing to change things for the better.

I like @HaroldsHoodie 's suggestion of creating a separate topic for 'women's sexual health and wellbeing'. Reddit has rules on various subforums that only certain people may post there (e.g. 'askoldpeople' you must have been born in 1980 or earlier, other forums are specifically for those who are/identify as specific categories). I wonder if it would be worth making that an explicit rule - that it's for women seeking advice and support on sexual health and wellbeing from other women.

While I realise there is no way to actually police that, I believe it would have a definite impact on the tone and content of the support offered, and would make it a more worthwhile forum.

The difference in tone and content between what men and women post is very clear across the sex and relationships boards. Obviously doesn't apply to 100% of posters, but on balance the contrast is clear

Must add, I specifically avoided ‘sexual health’ because I think it needs to be clear it’s about sex itself and advice support around that (which will, to an extent, include sexual health).

Ah sorry for misquoting you.

I personally think any topic in which women ask for advice on sex itself is going to be a magnet for pervs and creeps unless it is at least theoretically meant to be women-only.

I wouldn't ask for advice on sex here. Probably not anywhere online tbf but certainly not here.

I agree, on both counts!

Your point about ‘for women to ask for advice, and for women to answer’ was implicit in my comment but I should have stated it outright.

As you said, there’s no way to actually police that, but it should be considered a women’s space, and it should be understood that any individual who is asked to leave because others are uncomfortable, should respect that and do so (and that should be backed up by the group and by moderation team).

'Your point about ‘for women to ask for advice, and for women to answer’ was implicit in my comment but I should have stated it outright.'

Many women ask for a man's perspective. If there's any concerns about replies posts will be reported, mnhq will check it out and take it from there I presume. As sex involves men and women I do think it is reasonable that both contribute.

If people want contributions from both they can continue to go to the sex topic.

Further to @Janiie comment I do believe that any woman posting on the sex board asking for women only to reply would have the request respected and if needed defended

If you’re not interested in the sex chat thread then just don’t engage with it?

Many people in the comments don’t actually use the sex board but are still trying to get rid of something that doesn’t bother them at all, why is that? There’s many men AND women who comment on the sex chat thread hoping to engage with someone.

Why should it be taken away just because some don’t want it on MN when you don’t even use it anyway?!

I think all that is covered by the health and relationships topics personally. And people post where they choose anyway - chat, AIBU, etc

Funny that. Many of us post on the Black Mumsnetters board where we ask for comments from black women only. Yet we still get ‘I’m not black but…’ comments every single time

Yesterday you were 'wondering' whether if the sex chat thread was removed people would move on to unsolicited dms today you believe these same people will respect women enough to not post on a thread where they ask for female only views Keeping up that consistency I see.

Of course. Likewise if they said what's men's take on <insert problem> that is fine too.

It's all basic online etiquette isn't it, tbf I've observed posters interacting more politely on the sex boards than other places.

@CrotchetyCrocheting indeed. Completely goady post on his behalf IMO.

@CrotchetyCrocheting as I explained yesterday it was a comment based on the concerns of others and NOT what I think will happen.

Please can we stop dissecting comments to try and discredit them and just have a conversation

You've been repeatedly asked to not reply by various women and have never respected that.

@Surplus2requirements you have demonstrated that you are physically unable to not insert yourself and keep inserting yourself on threads when women have asked you not to (i do not mean this one). You've been reported multiple times by multiple women and here you are, still, the B & M Bear Grylls, to tell us it's all good. Forgive me if we don't believe a word you type about men respecting boundaries.

@GoAgainstNicki I'm sorry to hear that, some people just can't help themselves I guess.

I do think that men on the sex board are very aware that this is a strongly female led forum and they are under an enhanced level of scrutiny and their is generally a higher level of respect than on some other boards where rudeness and even personal attacks are common

I'm glad MN have taken the thread down but it should not have taken this much campaigning. There have been multiple threads about this for weeks and a lot of people who have left the site altogether.

I suspect part of the reason it took so long is due to the constant interference from men like surplus who are desperate to keep the thread going.

But MN has been a huge disappointment all around.

Sorry, am I not having a conversation the way you want me to? I don't have to try and 'discredit' you, you are doing that all by yourself by 'wondering' and 'believing' left, right and centre all over every sex chat thread with none of it adding up.