The Sex topic - an update on moderation

[YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet]

Hi everyone.

Thanks for all your comments over the past week regarding the Sex board. It’s become clear from the discussion that we needed a rethink about our approach to this part of the site and so we’re going to introduce some rules to help ensure that posters can get the support and advice they need from the board and that everyone has clear expectations of the behaviour we expect.

Posters must be at least 18 years of age - Mumsnet has always been a site for adults but we want to be crystal clear about this for this board.

The board is text based - we don’t allow NSFW (not safe for work) images.

We don’t allow links to any NSFW sites or personal profiles on other sites

We will not tolerate creepy or harassing behaviour in particular from male posters

We’ve also had concerns raised about the ongoing ‘sex chat threads’ including the risks involved with allowing users to PM each other. Our approach has always been to allow consenting adults to make their own judgement when it comes to what they’ll share and, broadly, that is still the case across the site - but we acknowledge there are additional vulnerabilities here that we ought to consider.

With that in mind, we will no longer allow users to ask for or to offer to send PMs for the purposes of sex chat. For one thing, we can’t guarantee that the person you’re chatting with is who they say they are and we can’t realistically safeguard these kind of off-board discussions. We’ve looked at the moderation principles of similar boards on other sites and this is indeed the policy on several others.

We’d also like to address some of your other comments if we may. Last year we reduced the time required from joining to posting on Sex from 90 days to seven. We’ve no plans to change this at the moment because this timeframe has proved to be a sufficient deterrent to bad actors and we believe that 90 days is too long if you’re a new user with a genuine concern. We’d also like to be clear that our commercial partnerships have had zero bearing on any changes we’ve made (nor did anyone ask us to make changes) and MNHQ does not (and would never) post affiliate links to products under the guise of a regular MNer. We may be many things, but we are not underhand!

As with everything, we’ll continue to monitor the situation and we hope these new rules will go some way to reassure you. If anyone has further questions, please post here and we’ll do our best to answer them.

Thanks.

I have posted on the Sexchat thread asking for PM. I had quite a lot of PMs and still get a few because my username is on there. Out of the many private messages that I have received I have had 1 PM that following the first few responses from me became increasing unpleasant and I blocked him. I have had no unpleasant or horrible first messages. Any other people that I haven't wished to have a conversation with I have either politely told them that or ignored them and that.

But why @MovingonfromMartin? Why post on a parenting site asking for sex chat?

And why can't you understand that so many of us think it's NITS of Mumsnet?

If you want to hook up for sex, which is entirely your prerogative, why not go to a site that's set up for such liaisons? Why choose a parenting site?

Or we can keep posting and won’t be told by you to stfu, ‘Martin’.

There is a world of difference between hooking up for sex and chatting about it with a like minded adult

Maybe a better solution would be that people who send and encourage others to send sex chat PMs stay away from the sex topic.

Exactly @OutOfThisState!

There is a world of difference between hooking up for sex and chatting about it with a like minded adult

And I ask again: on a parenting site? Why not post somewhere that's specifically about sex/hook-ups? Why Mumsnet?

Yes, this.

@JustineMumsnet said on another of these threads:

... the majority of threads on the topic are discussing things we know are important and relevant to a significant percentage of MNers - such as post-partum sex, erectile dysfunction, and lack of sex drive.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/site_stuff/4749810-references-to-underage-sex-on-sex-board?page=7&reply=124167688

I believe that was the original aim of the sex topic but it's not true now. You only need to spend a couple of minutes on the first page to realise it's not true.

In a way I'm kind of grateful that the sex topic popped up in active because before it did, I couldn't understand why there was such a (slow but inexorable) increase in sleazy misogynistic posts across the site over the past year or two. Including the sex topic on active was like lifting a rock.

During the years it was hidden by default it appears that a culture has evolved there that is at odds with the rest of the site. I don't doubt that posters there see themselves as a community but it's a very different community from the rest of Mumsnet, with different boundaries and behavioural standards.

I reported the threesome thread last night that appeared on relationships. It was a blatant request for wank fodder. It was not deleted, instead it was moved to the sex topic so I can only assume that a thread requesting wank fodder is fine on the sex topic.

The thing is that if you allow any threads like that then they will quite quickly not be the minority, they will take over and become the culture of that topic and that's what has happened. Posters seeking wank fodder and hook-ups post more when they see this kind of content allowed to stand, genuine posters seeking support are put off by the sleaziness so post less.

Eventually you end up with a culture on the sex topic that is completely at odds with the rest of the site and that is not compatible with the stated aims of Mumsnet.

But possibly none that are as safe for women

It is in no way safer for women, which MN have acknowledged in their opening post on this thread. If anything, men who are drawn to a parenting website for sex chat are more sinister than those who stick to actual sex sites.

Some people here have certainly played a big part in minimising many women’s concerns, having gone on and on and on about the sex topic being valuable and helpful. To ‘know’ that, they must ‘hang out’ there quite a bit presumably or it would be very odd indeed to be so persistent if they didn’t.

There’s quite a few posters in favour of pervs corner that are contradicting themselves quite a lot on this thread. But they’re in good company as mumsnet themselves are also contradicting themselves. I suppose that’s what happens when there’s lots of bullshit and lies.

MN isn’t a safe space, though. Nowhere on the Internet is.

At least with the more focused sites you aren’t lulled into a false sense of security.

Oh I know you will. I'm glad you have the time in your day and the fire in your loins to continue to re hash the same arguments. I just use the fire in my loins elsewhere.

You are the second person to allude to mumsnet being a 'safe space' or 'safer' for sex chat on this thread. There is nowhere safe on the Internet, especially when you are soliciting sex chat.

@LangClegsInSpace said

In a way I'm kind of grateful that the sex topic popped up in active because before it did, I couldn't understand why there was such a (slow but inexorable) increase in sleazy misogynistic posts across the site over the past year or two. Including the sex topic on active was like lifting a rock.

Yes, I had noticed this too. Quite markedly in the last year or so. This likely goes some way to explaining it.

(The whole of that comment deserves quoting. I agree with points made.)

Of course there isn't and sadly it goes for all the other boards on MN. That's why informed risk management is so important

Reread the opening post of this thread. Sex chat PMs are banned for safeguarding reasons. It's not being enforced, inexplicably, but don't assert sex chat is safer here than anywhere else.

I'm a parent. I've used Mn for years. I was struggling with a break up from the arsehole that was Martin and was searching for help to get over him. I found it on MN all over the place. The he's a bastard, you are better off without him, you were silly to fall for him type thing, didn't help. The sex chat thread did.

So why did you say that there is possibly no where else on the Internet as safe as mumsnet for sex chat? Why even throw that out there when you know it is untrue

Yes I've already said I surprised it hasn't been taken down

MN isn’t a safe space, though. Nowhere on the Internet is.

At least with the more focused sites you aren’t lulled into a false sense of security.

This.

I don't know it is, I don't use sex sites but MN is very strongly female led and has robust moderation policies against predatory men.

More so than any forum I've been on.

I completely understand some women don't want any form of sex chat, some don't want any chat about sex at all. That's all fine but some do.

The 3 some thread is interesting, I've just read it. I've no idea of the motivation of the poster but all of the replies (disapproval aside) are dry, factual experience from both men and women with nothing I could remotely describe as wank fodder.

If the OP was indeed a perv then they were sorely disappointed

Thanks @YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet I think this is a step in the right direction.

I would also welcome clarity around the Ann Summers adverts. Has MN also now listened to the concerns of MNers about video ads trying to sell sexy underwear or “treats” with girls in lingerie dancing and gyrating?

OK. I was just a bit confused because one minute you are suggesting that if men can't get what they are looking for on sex chat threads they might go rogue and start dming anyone and everyone, next you are suggesting that mumsnet might be a safe space. Both of those strongly contradict each other so I will believe you when you say that you don't know what you are talking about and leave it there

Given the nature of the whole site, which can be quite personal, I think it would be good to know the uses to which our data is put. I see you have a right to commercialise the site, but people should be clear in what way, surely. Then we can make an informed decision when posting.