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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

MNHQ

The Sex topic - an update on moderation

465 replies

YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet · 01/03/2023 09:43

Hi everyone.

Thanks for all your comments over the past week regarding the Sex board. It’s become clear from the discussion that we needed a rethink about our approach to this part of the site and so we’re going to introduce some rules to help ensure that posters can get the support and advice they need from the board and that everyone has clear expectations of the behaviour we expect.

Posters must be at least 18 years of age - Mumsnet has always been a site for adults but we want to be crystal clear about this for this board.

The board is text based - we don’t allow NSFW (not safe for work) images.

We don’t allow links to any NSFW sites or personal profiles on other sites

We will not tolerate creepy or harassing behaviour in particular from male posters

We’ve also had concerns raised about the ongoing ‘sex chat threads’ including the risks involved with allowing users to PM each other. Our approach has always been to allow consenting adults to make their own judgement when it comes to what they’ll share and, broadly, that is still the case across the site - but we acknowledge there are additional vulnerabilities here that we ought to consider.

With that in mind, we will no longer allow users to ask for or to offer to send PMs for the purposes of sex chat. For one thing, we can’t guarantee that the person you’re chatting with is who they say they are and we can’t realistically safeguard these kind of off-board discussions. We’ve looked at the moderation principles of similar boards on other sites and this is indeed the policy on several others.

We’d also like to address some of your other comments if we may. Last year we reduced the time required from joining to posting on Sex from 90 days to seven. We’ve no plans to change this at the moment because this timeframe has proved to be a sufficient deterrent to bad actors and we believe that 90 days is too long if you’re a new user with a genuine concern. We’d also like to be clear that our commercial partnerships have had zero bearing on any changes we’ve made (nor did anyone ask us to make changes) and MNHQ does not (and would never) post affiliate links to products under the guise of a regular MNer. We may be many things, but we are not underhand!

As with everything, we’ll continue to monitor the situation and we hope these new rules will go some way to reassure you. If anyone has further questions, please post here and we’ll do our best to answer them.

Thanks.

OP posts:
Sparklingbrook · 01/03/2023 09:47

That all sounds positive.
And with the removal of Sex Topic threads from Active what most people wanted especially-

We will not tolerate creepy or harassing behaviour in particular from male posters

onirgellep · 01/03/2023 09:56

Thank you

MeganTheeScallion · 01/03/2023 10:15

Thank you!

I wonder if you could define "creepy" and "harassing"? Recent threads have demonstrated that different MNers have different perspectives on this. I guess it will be decided on a case by case basis if a post is reported?

Anyway, ta for all this 👍

Sparklingbrook · 01/03/2023 10:19

MeganTheeScallion · 01/03/2023 10:15

Thank you!

I wonder if you could define "creepy" and "harassing"? Recent threads have demonstrated that different MNers have different perspectives on this. I guess it will be decided on a case by case basis if a post is reported?

Anyway, ta for all this 👍

I hope it covers both posts on threads (in any topic) and PMs.

MeganTheeScallion · 01/03/2023 10:23

Indeed, @Sparklingbrook hopefully so.

Mermaidparades · 01/03/2023 10:25

Thank you!

BIWI · 01/03/2023 10:27

Thank you @YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet

However - a couple of things:

We will not tolerate creepy or harassing behaviour in particular from male posters

This is very welcome, but how will you know that they're male? Unless they identify themselves as such, it's sometimes hard to tell

Last year we reduced the time required from joining to posting on Sex from 90 days to seven. We’ve no plans to change this at the moment because this timeframe has proved to be a sufficient deterrent to bad actors and we believe that 90 days is too long if you’re a new user with a genuine concern

I'm not really sure I agree with this - very happy to accept that 90 days is too long, but I also think that 7 days is too short to keep those away who are targeting MN as a site for their 'needs'. And I'm also not sure that those wanting to post about sex are posting about problems - if they're genuine problems, I suspect they're usually relationship-based, in which case we already have a board for that.

But overall, this is a definite positive and I'm really heartened to hear it.

I still hate the fact that you take money from companies like Smile Makers and Ann Summers though.

MNHQ
YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet · 01/03/2023 10:27

MeganTheeScallion · 01/03/2023 10:15

Thank you!

I wonder if you could define "creepy" and "harassing"? Recent threads have demonstrated that different MNers have different perspectives on this. I guess it will be decided on a case by case basis if a post is reported?

Anyway, ta for all this 👍

Yes - case-by-case basis - we'd take context into account as we do with all other aspects of our moderation.

OP posts:
MeganTheeScallion · 01/03/2023 10:28

Makes sense, thanks @YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet

MNHQ
YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet · 01/03/2023 10:39

BIWI · 01/03/2023 10:27

Thank you @YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet

However - a couple of things:

We will not tolerate creepy or harassing behaviour in particular from male posters

This is very welcome, but how will you know that they're male? Unless they identify themselves as such, it's sometimes hard to tell

Last year we reduced the time required from joining to posting on Sex from 90 days to seven. We’ve no plans to change this at the moment because this timeframe has proved to be a sufficient deterrent to bad actors and we believe that 90 days is too long if you’re a new user with a genuine concern

I'm not really sure I agree with this - very happy to accept that 90 days is too long, but I also think that 7 days is too short to keep those away who are targeting MN as a site for their 'needs'. And I'm also not sure that those wanting to post about sex are posting about problems - if they're genuine problems, I suspect they're usually relationship-based, in which case we already have a board for that.

But overall, this is a definite positive and I'm really heartened to hear it.

I still hate the fact that you take money from companies like Smile Makers and Ann Summers though.

We don't know if anyone is male - but by having rules in place we will hopefully deter anyone who thinks it's okay to be a creep!

OP posts:
CrotchetyCrocheting · 01/03/2023 10:40

Thanks for the update. Although you say that participants must be over 18 you don't mention whether you will still be allowing those participants to discuss sex involving minors?

MNHQ
YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet · 01/03/2023 10:41

Oh sorry - pressed post too soon! @BIWI there is crossover with Relationships for sure but many posts would not be appropriate for that topic.

OP posts:
MNHQ
YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet · 01/03/2023 10:43

@CrotchetyCrocheting again it would be case-by-case as it is elsewhere on the site. We've not seen anything since that particular thread but as always, please do report if you have concerns.

OP posts:
beastlyslumber · 01/03/2023 10:50

I wish you would reinstate the 90 days. If someone has a genuine concern they can still post in relationships.

I do not see the need for a 'sex chat' at all. But if you have it, it needs active moderation. It shouldn't be that moderation is dependent on users reports. At that point, the damage is already done.

TangledUpInDreams · 01/03/2023 10:51

YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet · 01/03/2023 10:43

@CrotchetyCrocheting again it would be case-by-case as it is elsewhere on the site. We've not seen anything since that particular thread but as always, please do report if you have concerns.

This is a cop out.

State what your policy on hosting descriptions of CSA on the sex topic will be, please.

Sparklingbrook · 01/03/2023 10:52

I think 30 days would be better, I'm not sure what you'd need to post that was so urgent.

BIWI · 01/03/2023 10:52

Thank you @YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet

I wonder, though, if someone was to have a real problem, whether or not increasing the 7 days limit would make any difference? Surely if you have a real problem, and you're told you can't post about it for a week, you'd look elsewhere? Whereas the trolls are quite happy to wait, and in the meantime, build up their profile by posting elsewhere?

A lot of this implies that you're going to be somehow pre-moderating the sex board - is that going to be the case? Or will you just rely on people to report?

BatFaceOwl · 01/03/2023 10:53

@beastlyslumber I think the sex chat thread is going? That's how I read it anyway

TangledUpInDreams · 01/03/2023 10:56

(thank you for the thread and comments though @YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet . I appreciate it's a difficult/challenging job)

beastlyslumber · 01/03/2023 10:57

BatFaceOwl · 01/03/2023 10:53

@beastlyslumber I think the sex chat thread is going? That's how I read it anyway

I read it as them just advising posters not to PM or ask for PMs. It sounds like they can still have an explicit sex chat (and obviously will still PM)

I think there needs to be a more coherent policy when it comes to descriptions and talk of CSA. That was horrifying that this was allowed to stand. Another example of why pre-moderation is needed if the sex topic is going to continue to be the sexy topic (rather than an advice topic).

BatFaceOwl · 01/03/2023 10:59

@beastlyslumber I see what you mean. Clarification on that would be good. There's no issue with sex chat threads on sex sites, it's just so jarring on a parenting site - and 'jarring' is the least of it!

MNHQ
YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet · 01/03/2023 11:03

@BIWI it's post-moderated as the rest of the site. As we said previously, we've not noticed any issues from decreasing the time to seven days.

@TangledUpInDreams we're sorry you think it's a cop-out. We know from the past that being black and white about something doesn't work. If a poster disclosed they had experienced CSA, would we allow them to discuss their experiences? It really does need to be case-by-case and allowing for context.

OP posts:
BIWI · 01/03/2023 11:08

The thing is, though, @YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet - post-moderation relies on reports. As the Sec board will no longer be in Active Discussions, only people on it will be relied on to report. And as we've already seen, many (most?) of them don't see any issue with it

YellowAndGreenToBeSeen · 01/03/2023 11:08

Good news, thank you.

TangledUpInDreams · 01/03/2023 11:09

I know. I appreciate that. However, on the sex topic which carries a certain 'vibe', I think your moderation standards on this need to be absolutely clear!

Stating that something in that vein has happened to you, for example, is not the same as describing what happened to you or, especially what you did to someone else.