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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Web Chat Suggestion - QC on Rights When Approaching or Being Approached by Police

119 replies

MelodyPondsMum · 04/10/2022 13:36

I'm not sure if this is the right place and you've been tagged in the thread where I originally suggested it but thought I'd put it here too. My original post is in italics and bold.

I wonder if we could get MNHQ to do a webchat with a QC about women's rights concerning arrests/cautions/vexatious complaints, etc - basically any interactions with the police.

The QC could provide a detailed checklist on what to do when faced with a police officer at the door; an officer determined to gain entry; an officer casually referencing sectioning, etc because threads on here show that some posters seem to think random Googles are the same as understanding the law and their rights. It isn't.

Also, is it possible to have a group litigation order against the police? Women need to mobilise collectively around these particular issues with the police.

Women are regularly dismissed when the try to report VAWG, stalking and harassment. The End Violence Against Women Campaign has called for action regarding the wider culture in the police that fails women and enables perpetrators. Women are often dismissed and sent away.

Women are also being disproportionately targeted under Hate Incidents legislation.

Yy there are general rights that all people have when approached by the police or approaching the police. But there are also issues peculiar to women eg

  • women are more likely to be care givers so there are issues around childcare (and police threatening mothers with SS involvement to 'watch' their DCs whilst they are at the station);
  • there are issues around the weaponising of MH issues and vulnerabilities (threatening with sectioning but not providing appropriate medical supervision or assessment)
  • there are issues around searching (both of houses and persons)- taking into account sex, periods, religious beliefs, etc
  • there are issues around how to act if you believe the original complaint has been made maliciously
  • there are issues around how to get a complaint regarding VAWG taken seriously

I think it would be very beneficial for MNHQ to provide a reliable source of information to ensure women are aware of their rights. I also think a webchat would raise the profile of the issues that women face and how disproportionately the laws are currently applied depending on your sex.

Yy there is lots of information in different places on the web but it would be good to have the information in one place, and for up-to-date advice in light of the changing legal landscape. TIA

OP posts:
BoreOfWhabylon · 05/10/2022 01:03

Great idea!

HatThatWearsYou · 05/10/2022 01:21

Adding my voice to this, yes please women need to know their rights in this climate where you can apparently be arrested for SFA and have the police used to harass you if you don't think the correct thoughts.

HatThatWearsYou · 05/10/2022 01:22

To add can we please have a QC from Fair Play for Women if possible?

TheBiologyStupid · 05/10/2022 01:26

HatThatWearsYou · 05/10/2022 01:22

To add can we please have a QC from Fair Play for Women if possible?

It's KC now that the queen has died.

In appreciating your username, I didn't mean to overlook the very serious points that you made so well AllMumsyWereTheBorrowedClothes

HatThatWearsYou · 05/10/2022 01:29

TheBiologyStupid · 05/10/2022 01:26

It's KC now that the queen has died.

In appreciating your username, I didn't mean to overlook the very serious points that you made so well AllMumsyWereTheBorrowedClothes

Of course it is! Feeling a bit daft now Blush

Can we please have KC from Fair Play for Women (or someone else prominent in the feminism/women's rights sphere)?

HatThatWearsYou · 05/10/2022 01:30

The worst bit is I knew that and somehow forgot/habit?

MrsTerryPratchett · 05/10/2022 01:41

Good idea.

BeggarsMeddle · 05/10/2022 10:56

Really good suggestion.

Amarette · 05/10/2022 11:05

Yes please

Bergamotte · 05/10/2022 16:58

Yes please. This would be really useful; especially if, as others have suggested, they made clear where the law differs in the different nations of the UK.

ihavespoken · 05/10/2022 17:07

Yes please!

Hoardasurass · 05/10/2022 17:45

Yes please

CentaureaCyanus · 05/10/2022 18:00

Yes please, this would be very much appreciated!

MrsIronfoundersson · 05/10/2022 18:04

Yes please!

MelodyPondsMum · 05/10/2022 18:14

In fact there are so many areas to cover, maybe it needs to be a series of chats with different specialisms eg interactions with the police in person (as PPs have mentioned Sarah Everard's murder threw up lots of questions for women about when they can refuse to accompany a police officer, etc). Then there are questions around the help we can expect from police if we're attending an event that is being counter protested, etc. As well as if police turn up on our doorstep; try to access our homes, etc - with all the factors in my OP.

As well as online interactions eg malicious communications; when social media sites are obliged to breach anonymity; how to get the police to take death threats against women seriously; liability around posting or creating memes or photos, etc.

I know after Sarah Everard's murder I asked my local force how they engaged with women and how they planned to work with women to restore trust in the police. I'm still waiting for an answer.

OP posts:
HatThatWearsYou · 05/10/2022 19:12

I'd be up for a series of chats too.

Baldieheid · 06/10/2022 13:57

Yes, me too. Let's get the facts about our rights in writing.

Cailin66 · 08/10/2022 07:41

Super idea.

MelodyPondsMum · 24/10/2022 12:21

Hi @LilyMumsnet I'm just bumping this again to see if MNHQ has made any progress on organising it?

It seems quite pertinent since two women were apparently arrested this weekend for asking a male to leave a female toilet.

Leading to lots of confusion about whether voice recordings can be taken in those situations (to provide protection from any alleged malicious claims of assault); whether and how loved ones are notified; whether a request for an apology is a legally sound position for the police to take, etc.

I don't think I need to point out that women would reasonably expect the police to be on their side in this sort of situation and if it's leaving women open to being arrested then it would be extremely beneficial to understand how we can clarify the legal position to police.

Women need to know how to counter and protect themselves against police forces that are increasingly misogynistic and against the growing numbers of malicious complaints from MRAs.

OP posts:
beastlyslumber · 24/10/2022 12:23

Wow, I didn't hear about that. Yes, it would be great to have some update on this, please!

JoanOgden · 24/10/2022 12:26

Agree - might be one to suggest Legal Feminist follows up too, they might be interested in covering in their blog.

Pixiedust1234 · 24/10/2022 12:31

It seems quite pertinent since two women were apparently arrested this weekend for asking a male to leave a female toilet.

What the actual..??? Not heard about this at all 😮

Yes, this information is becoming increasingly more urgent and not something that should be ignored. Thats how we got into this mess in the first place.

MelodyPondsMum · 24/10/2022 12:52

It was in Cardiff. It seems MRAs and TRAs have been targeting the area because it was hosting FILIA.

Twitter link

Again, it's thrown up lots of contradictory advice again about what women's rights are when approached by men and by the police.

OP posts:
TheBiologyStupid · 24/10/2022 12:53

Here you go, Pixiedust:
twitter.com/pankhurstem/status/1584372350036094977

Pixiedust1234 · 24/10/2022 13:23

Thank you both. Its horrifying that a woman is arrested for asking a male to leave a single sex space but also not allowing her friend to leave the police station because....she's a friend?!?!?