The For Sale/ Wanted boards - update from M Towers and post your ideas/thoughts here

[JustineMumsnet]

As you may know we have in mind a complete overhaul of the For sale/ wanted boards as they seem to be making many folks' lives (ours especially) a misery.

Clearly it makes sense for us to have classified ads - why not re-cycled used stuff? That should in theory be good for buyers and sellers alike (and it's very green too). But equally clearly, at the risk of understatement, it is not functioning well at the moment.

However, complete overhaul is going to have to wait a wee while as Tech's got quite a lot on... (We are hopefully bringing you improved local listings, blogs and more in the next few weeks and months).

In the meantime do give us your ideas for how you'd ultimately like to see For sale/ wanted working. (I know some of you have already posted some sensible (and not so sensible thoughts around and abou but we'd be super grateful if you'd re-post the best of them here so everyone can see, discuss and refine.)

So... what rules would be fair/enforcable and assist in the smooth working of the thing? (nb we are never going to enforce a no huns policy I'm afraid, so do be realistic - MN is for all parents even those with poor grammar and spelling.)

Should we re-house somewhere off Talk? And will it be used/useful if we do? Can we make it work on Talk if not? What would make it easier to use/ more functional?

Should we charge and if so how. What would you pay to use and how would you like to pay it?

Which other boards do this successfully and what are the best ideas/functionality should we pinch?

To ease the pain of waiting for overhaul, next week we will introduce a couple of quick fixes that might hopefully smooth the operation a little, namely we're going to insist that everyone who posts a for sale notice pays a CAT and we'll break down the boards into categories so things are more easily searchable.

In the meantime, please hang on in there and if it all gets too much there's always the hide thread/topic option .

Thanks for your input and your patience.

Peace and love,

Mumsnet Towers

Sorry, no time tonight to read through whole thread ... DH just serving up gorgeous takeaway curry.

Must just say that it is HUGELY important to keep the For Sale/Wanted threads because of recycling/green issues.

Would love to give away all my stuff to charity and I do give a lot away. But am too skint to give it all away. So am either going to car boot it, e-bay it, or Mumsnet it.

Would be so much happier if my very good stuff went to a Mnetter and would be happy to buy from a Mnetter too.

For Sale/Wanted needs to be separated out from the rest of the threads. So you have to "click on" to access, rather than opt out.

Then items need to be posted in categories.

Then people need a one-off ad that stays on for, say, 7 days and no more. No bumping. And they need to do the equivalent of a "buy it now" price - no auctioning, too complicated.

And they need to pay you a fee, and the fee pays the salary of the person who oversees the board and keeps the "professionals" or non-regular users in check. So potential advertisers go through a filter that someone actually looks at!

I am looking for a part-time job atm. Hopeful . Hands up!

magicdragon

its not too bad honestly..think it is humourous or referential

i get told off all the time sweetheart

I would be really offended, I type quite fast and cannot be bothered to read it before posting I would hate for everyone to be on my back constantly.

I would like to thank magicdragon, mumtojandp and tigermoth for a very valuable and valid contribution on how we can make it work for everybody.

Tigermoth, you speak a lot of sense regards to the identity, having a selling/buying persona and a forum contributing persona makes sense. I like your idea of a sellers profile. It is very reassuring.

As an ebay trader I have 3 different identities , my personal, my shop, and my "helping newbies on the community boards" identities.

At the same time, I like the idea of a count-down or expiry of ads, and to close the sale via email rather than forever bumping the same ad.

Picturetrails are good. I hate using hotmail to e-mail photos/view photos, but I can only receive mail from my other address. Maybe MN should team up with a photo hosting site, and everyone has to use that one?

I will admit, that the classifieds seem to be mirroring the buy/sell area of Bounty. Now thats a bustling marketplace! I don't like Bounty as I didn't get my hospital pack when I had Tom (I was in 3 days/2 nights!) and they chose to ignore my e-mail complaing. So raspberries to them!

Bounty: Rise of the Huns!

MagicDragon, as I said in a previous post I do buy and sell on MN. However, IMO long picture trails with masses of pics of single items all priced individually does not seem to be in the spirit of MN, where the aim is to sell on used/unwanted things, not to make a profit. The pic-trail notion seems more commercial than that to my mind.
If ads were limited in number, then sellers would not be able to sell loads of things at any one time and pic trails would not be needed.
It is possible to upload a pic to each ad, a bit like you do on ebay and IMO this should be enough.
If sellers need to leave an email address within their ad then buyers can get in touch for more pics if needed.

I dont think picturetrails/photobucket albums etc are a problem in themselves, it's just when the thread title says 'new trail' and you're expected to sift threw it, if however it said 'girls clothes bundle aged 12-18months' then showed all items on a picture trail I dont think that would be a problem.

Magic Dragon, I can understand why you thought greensleeves was being rude, in a way, yes, maybe she was, but I think if you post on here alot you become used to peoples 'personality' as such, so I'd try not to take offence. MN as a site is often pedantic, which I would see 'alot two words...' as rather than rude.

It is two words. Crying about it won't change it. You have laid yourself bare to Mumsnet, where the locals worship the Gods of Well Informed, now sit still and Be Improved Upon.

hulababy has come up with the perfect idea.....

• Title of post (ie. what are you selling)
• New or Used
• Price of item
• Price of P&P or collection only
• If collection - location
• Category: toys, children's clothes, adults clothes, books, etc
• Condition of item
• Full description of item
• Picture
• email or other conact details

i think this sounds great.

a small charge sounds like a good idea,either a compulsary CAT charge or charge per thread.
this may also stop the posters who moan about the for sale threads and then post on them complaining and trying to be funny
just look at the new feedback forum,great idea but already ruined with the normal "lets post to take the piss out of the huns" posters!

As someone who considers herself a regular I think it is time for the buy sell boards to go and perhaps be replaced by FFP which is sad as it would be nice if regular mumsnetters could sell on used goods to raise some money.

We had a big clear out before Christmas and had some lovely toys and clothes that I thought about selling on here but realised there was no point as I would not want to endlessly bump my items into active conversations. In the end I gave most to Homestart and we will sell the others either through ebay or privately.

It is a sad fact that mumsnet has grown because it has been recognised as witty intelligent place to hang out but that fame is now killing us as we are flooded by people who want to sell mass volumes of stuff or just tatt without paying ebay fees or without any regulations. It is sad that we managed to survice the curse of she who shall not be named but mumsnet as we know it may disapear because of half used perfume bottles and nicked prams, perhaps she who shall not be named will have the last laugh after all.

I come here because it is full of interesting people who have such a wide array of knowledge on topics as diverse as how to give a good blow job to will Hilary Clinton make a good president ( perhaps those examples were not that diverse thinking about it . If this becomes a watered down ebay I feel that will dissapear, infact why don;t we all just go and set up a commmunity on the ebay chatrooms and be done with it.

I have had immense support from this community in recent months, so perhaps I am a little over protective of it, but I know that if this becomes a second rate ebay i won't be spending my time here. It really does frustate me that the community that I have become part of over the past few years which has done so much for so many people is simply treated as a place to flogg stuff and even worse con others.

right. so MN must make a decision.
do we become a half-arsed ebay or do we ditch the whole thing?
all this talk of selling and seller profiles and picturetrails etc is making me queasy... it's not what it should be about. whie i think that tigermoth has made some good points about how it might work...are we wanting this? do we want to become the bounty classifieds? much to my own surprise i'm thinking not and that ditching it altogether is the way forward.
i can't see how it is in the spirit of MN, the christmas appeal, peter and misdee's transplant, the SWMNBN campaign that sprung up from nowhere, the gifts given and the monies raised for people we've never met... all those amazing moments. i'll be fascinated to see what MNHQ do, actually. the wrong decision could change their business completely. (which may be what they want, of course).

and now greeny, that was snippy, winding them up like that and you should apologise because in the great scheme that wasn't important. but otoh, the sellers should think about taking the stick out of their arses a bit and stop bleating about the mean big girls.

i've not looked, but all these people who are too scared to post on this thread... have they started one in For Sale? most reg MNers won't see it as they're forced to hide the board, so they'll be perfectly safe to say whatever they wish and post the link to MNHQ.

or they could actually read this thread and see that with very few exceptions the sellers' contributions have been treated with respect.

...which is quite a concession, they should realise, because being treated with respect is not a given on here...

Twinset has summed it up beautifully. And personally, I do not want it. My honest opinion is to scrap the buy and sell alltogether.

But, if mnhq is adamant it has to stay, it has to be better managed than now.

But I think the key to the matter and the entire crux of the situation is that the sales boards are so busy.

Having worked for a large portal site, I know that pageviews are gold dust, and the more pageviews the more advertisements you can sell. From a revenue perspective, what good does culture vulture do to the revenue stream if MN can only sell 1000 pagewievs per month? On the other hand, if the classifieds boards are generating 100,000s of pageviews, this is where advertising money is spent, and this is what MN need to pay for Techs shed, and maybe a little server space (Server rental I know is extortionate, server purchase too).

I know it cant be compared directly, but Netmums needed the Nestle advertisements to stay afloat. Maybe Mumsnet is selling out in the same way to second rate traders instead?
We dont want ads, we kick up a fuss about Nutella advertisements, what would we say to other advertisers, not as wholesome to the informed pedantic masses that make up the voice of mumsnet?

I think, if we are to scrap the sales boards, we have to accept something else, as MN must make money to stay afloat. Would we be prepared for the likes of Nestle to sponsor it?

What good is MN if it is the members who make it difficult to stay profitable?

I consider myself a regular, and I buy and sell occasionally - just the odd few children's clothes mainly. I've picked up some things fr my kids that I either couldn't afford new,or wanted to get 2nd hand for environmental reasons, and I've sold a few bits that my local friends haven't needed for their DC. It's been great, and helpful for me.

I think ideally we should pare buying and selling back, maybe by only allowing child related items to be sold (no more half used toiletries etc!), and to change a small fee(per year or per thread - I'd say per year would be the best in terms of workload for MNHQ). I also agree that some categories would be helpful.

If this doesn't work or a solution can't be found, I'd say ditch it. It would be a shame, but the lesser of 2 evils. (not sure, however, how easy it will be to police - making sure people don't buy and sell in other areas? And it would be just dreadful if suddenly 'chat' was full of ads..)

LONG LIVE MUMSNET

I think it should stay and applaud the idea of an advert type listing with communication off board, then adverts wont get bumped off the face of the universe within 15 minutes, and I might finally get to sell the pram I've listed four times without success!

I don't think it should go completely, and like the idea of a separate section, with a link from all other sections of the site.

Lots of mention of using ebay for selling, but as all us real nappy users are aware, second hand nappies aren't allowed on ebay . There are lots of people interested in using real nappies on here and it would be a shame if this avenue for getting some second hand ones to try out before making what is a huge financial commitment should be encouraged (carbon footprints and all).

peace and love

I think the green/recycling of stuff issue is quite important. Not everyone can afford to simply give away their cast off clothing, equipment etc no matter how much they'd like to recycle things. And families with babies and children accumulate huge amounts of stuff that could be passed on. Mumsnet is the biggest parenting site in the UK, I think, so it's good that its seen to enable people to recycle their stuff either free or for sale.

Good messages here. I think it's a really useful discussion. Sorry I'm not around today to post more - will catch up tomorrow.

It would be good if mumsnet "so it's good that its seen to enable people to recycle their stuff either free or for sale."

Sadly at the moment regulars posts are bumped off the boards by the traders or have other issues with the selling board.

Just reading down this thread I have read of several posters who either have tried and failed to use the sale board or are put off by the current group using the board etc.

But if the traders could be kicked off, then maybe mumsnet sales boards couls really be...for parents by parents

Yes, would be a terrible shame if the for sale/wanted boards had to go because they have been or are perceived to have been hijacked by traders.

But cannot understand why Mnetters would want these boards "to go" (ie. Twinsetandpearls) because if you want these boards to go atm all you have to do is click on hide.

The thought of my outgrown children's stuff going to landfill makes me deeply unhappy. There must be a way to find the right home for outgrown children's items on this website. Completely agree that For Sale/Wanted on Mumsnet should be children's/maternity items only. Have a limited list of categories ie:

Baby/Toddler/Children clothing.
Maternity clothes.
Baby/Toddler equipment (inc prams, cots, breast pumps and the like)

and nothing other.

No adult clothing. No collectables. No brand new stuff, etc. Just to differentiate between Mumsnet and ebay etc.

[still hands up for the job of getting it up and running!]

Daphne
x

Thats true tigermoth, I would love to be able to give away all my stuff FFP, but unfortunately I can't afford to. Its great to be able to pass it on, but get a little bit back to buy the next lot of clothes for the ever growing DC! And it makes sense environmentally too.

but isn't ebay for that, really? loads of people sell bundles of clothes on there, presumably they're doing it for exactly the same reason.

Yes, I could use ebay. It seems much more of a faff, and as I only sell the odd thing (I've sold maybe...6 or so things in 2 years, and bought about the same number) I prefer to sell on MN. Plus, I actually would prefer things to go (for a lower price) to other MNers, I think it can actually add to the sense of community we have here - passing things on, answering people's 'wanted' ads.

I don't deny that the way things have gone is extremely anti-community though. We def need a change, and if it doesn't work out then I agree we should ditch it altogether, because there is too much at stake really.

I agree Astrophe, there is something nice about buying/selling things from/to other Mnetters rather than on ebay, but it is the way the boards have become so commercial which is wrong IMO.
If we can lose the traders, by limiting ads/bumps/trails etc, and get the for sale board back to how it was intended I think that would be great.

i have been wanting to ask this for ages.....so here goes.
if things stay as they are and people just hide the topics. what is to stop people just posting in chat or anywhere.
I hide wanted/for sale but have noticed that people post saying..oh i know you jide this topic so i have posted in here,
kinda defeats the object.

my friends a regular mner and she doesn't have a debit/credit card so can't use ebay to sell her things. she loves being able to sell them on here so if you were to set up a fee for selling regulars like her would be excluded.

I think a credit system where each for sale posts costs 1 credit. mumsnetters who have been registered for more than say 6 months could get 10 free credits a year. if you wanted extra or were a new mner you could also buy credits - i don't know of a reasonable price, someone on a different thread suggested 20 for a £1. For those without a credit/debit card you could also earn credits by checking that a For Sale post (in moderation queue) is from a genuine regular mumsnetter... say for every post you check by doing a quick search you earn 1 credit.

That way, MN gets extra money which is always good and it doesn't cost them extra in getting people to check the for sale posts. They could be put in some sort of queue whilst they were waiting to be approved before being posted on mn - a bit like on freecycle.

That way we also don't get people who ONLY use the For Sale board and we still get to keep a cheap/free sales/swap board for the regulars.

Also i think subcategories in for sale would be good. So if you were looking for say nappies or clothes you could just look in that section to see what people had for offer. I personally think it should still be on talk. I don't hide the for sale threads cos sometimes i won't be looking in for sale and something i've wanted for ages will pop up in active convos. if it wasn't on talk i'd miss good deals like that.

How long do people think you should have been registered for - about 6 months or so? To check this it would be good if everyone had to have a basic profile page which just showed their MN name and the month they joined.

also i don't think the idea of not being able to reply on for sale threads is a good one. that means to see it in active convos you need to be on when it is first posted. i have often come across good items cos someone has bumped the thread asking about the item, i've then said if soandso changes their mind i'd like it, that persons changed their mind and i've got a lovely item at half the price i would have paid for it in the shops. if that person hadn't asked a question about it on the thread it wouldn't have been bumped up on active convos and i wouldn't have known about it.