The For Sale/ Wanted boards - update from M Towers and post your ideas/thoughts here

[JustineMumsnet]

As you may know we have in mind a complete overhaul of the For sale/ wanted boards as they seem to be making many folks' lives (ours especially) a misery.

Clearly it makes sense for us to have classified ads - why not re-cycled used stuff? That should in theory be good for buyers and sellers alike (and it's very green too). But equally clearly, at the risk of understatement, it is not functioning well at the moment.

However, complete overhaul is going to have to wait a wee while as Tech's got quite a lot on... (We are hopefully bringing you improved local listings, blogs and more in the next few weeks and months).

In the meantime do give us your ideas for how you'd ultimately like to see For sale/ wanted working. (I know some of you have already posted some sensible (and not so sensible thoughts around and abou but we'd be super grateful if you'd re-post the best of them here so everyone can see, discuss and refine.)

So... what rules would be fair/enforcable and assist in the smooth working of the thing? (nb we are never going to enforce a no huns policy I'm afraid, so do be realistic - MN is for all parents even those with poor grammar and spelling.)

Should we re-house somewhere off Talk? And will it be used/useful if we do? Can we make it work on Talk if not? What would make it easier to use/ more functional?

Should we charge and if so how. What would you pay to use and how would you like to pay it?

Which other boards do this successfully and what are the best ideas/functionality should we pinch?

To ease the pain of waiting for overhaul, next week we will introduce a couple of quick fixes that might hopefully smooth the operation a little, namely we're going to insist that everyone who posts a for sale notice pays a CAT and we'll break down the boards into categories so things are more easily searchable.

In the meantime, please hang on in there and if it all gets too much there's always the hide thread/topic option .

Thanks for your input and your patience.

Peace and love,

Mumsnet Towers

Message withdrawn

Justine, do you know how the Netmums (shock horror) for sales boards work?

I think they are brilliant. Each local section has a For Sale, Wanted and For Free board. When you reply, the message is passed on to the advertiser much like your CAT. And then it is up to the advertiser to respond in person by email or phone to the message. Because it is local, no posting is involved, the buyer usually picks up from home. During my time with Netmums (I dont post in the coffee house anymore, but I use the for sales boards) I have actually made friends that way! It is great as we are all local mums, and we all have stuff we want to get rid of or buy cheaply, and we get to meet up face to face, and have a cuppa too. It is a brilliant face to face meet a mum initiative!

This means that you have no small talk on the board, no politics, and no scams!

Do you know I've just checked and the For Sale topic is our third busiest topic (so not insignificant from page impression/ revenue point of view but nevertheless one we're willing to forgo). Wonder who can guess the first two...

chat and games?

We do have local classified too Quintessential, the question is can we make national ones work - but I like the idea of auto pass on of response - thanks for that.

Only read the OP, just going to say what I've said on every thread going at the moment!

Keep it on talk, people can hide if they really dont want to see it, but if it's regulated properly then those who are annoyed with it at the moment can still see it.

IMO there needs to be rules set up.

1)Only so many threads allowed per week, if you're only selling used items that you no longer need I cant see how more than one thread a week should be needed.(Limit the amount of things that can be sold too, say ten per thread)

2)Each thread should have a clear title or at least clear enough e.g boys clothes 18-24months, and then the first post be detailed about what they are selling.

3)No continuous bumping, three a day max, just to reach the different morning/noon and night MNers.

4)Anyone who wants to sell more than above needs to pay a charge for a seperate board away from talk, that way those who are selling lots can do, and those who are just selling off old/unwanted stuff can do without being overshadowed by the big fish as it were.

5)If anyone breaks the rules, they get reported, the thread gets deleted, if it happens twice, they get banned from for sale.

while you are diversifying maybe you would like to start a dating website rofl

I'd love to see For Sale taken out of Talk, as it's not talk, it's trading.

I think charging for each For Sale thread started would deter a lot of the traders who only come on Mn so sell.

A small fee, say £1 per thread would deter traders but not regular MNers who want to sell stuff they no longer need occasionally.

Yes indeed Chat and AIBU are the two most popular topics followed by For Sale. (What's the world coming to?)

First two - chat and AIBU?

Oops, too late.

I also agree with marina. To make it work well and fairly woudl require a great deal of work for MN towers. So i think it shoudl go.

Mumsnet needs to focus on what its good at, and not try to be everything to everyone

professional sellers can use ebay. green people can use freecycle.

its a shame for the regulars who just want to sell the odd item, but i think most people will understand

I agree w/marina and Betty Spagetti.

More trouble than it's worth and places like Ebay have the facilities to regulate sales within legal bounds as well (such as requirements to inform the IR about professional traders).

Lyra, it would probably work the other way, the amount of money they are making, picturetrails of goodness knows how many items, a pound wouldnt deter them at all, whereas it might if someone was just selling something small.

I honestly think two for sale oards, one for Talk, that has strict limitations on, and one for people who sell more, away from talk.

Oh also, for sale threads need to be selling something, if they arent then go to FAO or Chat.

I think part of the problem is that it is national. Distances are long, you are dependent on posting in most cases, and that is where grievances and scams come into the picture.

I have traded on ebay for years, both with a personal account, and a business account with a shop. Part of the way to stay safe and not be scammed is to hang out on the ebay community boards (yes I am also one of the zero rating posters who help newbies under a pseudonym) to stay aware of all the new ways of scamming. I am disheartened when I see a parenting forum, many of us here vulnerable in one of or the other, targeted by professional second hand traders, many of whom have no scrouples, and use this place simply because advertising is free, they are tapping into an enormous resource of people who want to buy something cheaply.

What is mumsnet planning on doing to keep people safe when trading?

the thing with setting a minimum number of posts is that people would just post things like . or I agree or even BUMP (!)

The for sales boards are a completely different part of MN. It feels like a different site (to me). I hate the them and us thing but They really do have their own "regs" that are not the same Regs as post on the rest of the forum.

TBH, i think the FFP thing may be abused as well. You could get people asking for them just sell on on ebay.

short-term i think there should be a box at the top of the page setting out guidelines for listings.

1. clear, concise description of goods as thread header.

1. no bumping, and chatting to be kept to the chat boards as it's a sneaky bump otherwise. plus them being in chat might encourage them to join in more?

1. no caps, exclamatories or squiggles as they make the place look untidy and defeat those members of MN with poor sight or screen readers.

1. a re-iteration that the point of the board is to pass on unwanted or unused goods between parents, not house clearance, that's what ebay is for. and anyone found trading purchases bought on ebay or acquired unscrupulously will be banned.

wrt the future, surely tech's done a lot of the hard work with the recipes section? can't you use that as a template, adding sections for age groups and gender, toys, clothes etc?
we could have a form like the recipes one, that would keep the listings the same. i think it could be great again...

MoM, That may be true but if people reported threads that took the piss then they'd soon have to stop.

I think if you are going to keep it, a) the fee needs to be about the same as Ebay b) really get your legal team to investigate the legal ramifications of people who are trading professionally.

I think v.squalors idea is brilliant, say 3 bumps a day and then everyones thread will get seen. Also agree with the title should include what is being sold, its easier to browse and only look at what you want. I use the for sale board a lot as well as other areas of mn as i can afford far more things for my dd's this way (and empty their wardrobes from time to time!!)

I agree with legalalien re allowing free/ffp stuff on the main board and having a separate section where sales are strictly limited - provided you can stop people from name changing and running lots of sales???

don't see why there should be bumping.

i mean, there's no 'bump' facility on Ebay. buyers go and look for things to purchase.

I do think it's more trouble than it's worth though, as there's no regulation or comeback for buyers who get ripped off. Would it be so terrible to do away with it altogether? As others have said, there are plenty of other sites where people can buy and sell, why do they have to do it on MN as well?

bosch, I'd imagine if MNHQ limited threads per registration then namechanges couldn't work, MNHQ knows you're still the same person.

Maybe CAT facility would have to be enabled to post on the for sale to stop people re-registering.