The For Sale/ Wanted boards - update from M Towers and post your ideas/thoughts here

[JustineMumsnet]

As you may know we have in mind a complete overhaul of the For sale/ wanted boards as they seem to be making many folks' lives (ours especially) a misery.

Clearly it makes sense for us to have classified ads - why not re-cycled used stuff? That should in theory be good for buyers and sellers alike (and it's very green too). But equally clearly, at the risk of understatement, it is not functioning well at the moment.

However, complete overhaul is going to have to wait a wee while as Tech's got quite a lot on... (We are hopefully bringing you improved local listings, blogs and more in the next few weeks and months).

In the meantime do give us your ideas for how you'd ultimately like to see For sale/ wanted working. (I know some of you have already posted some sensible (and not so sensible thoughts around and abou but we'd be super grateful if you'd re-post the best of them here so everyone can see, discuss and refine.)

So... what rules would be fair/enforcable and assist in the smooth working of the thing? (nb we are never going to enforce a no huns policy I'm afraid, so do be realistic - MN is for all parents even those with poor grammar and spelling.)

Should we re-house somewhere off Talk? And will it be used/useful if we do? Can we make it work on Talk if not? What would make it easier to use/ more functional?

Should we charge and if so how. What would you pay to use and how would you like to pay it?

Which other boards do this successfully and what are the best ideas/functionality should we pinch?

To ease the pain of waiting for overhaul, next week we will introduce a couple of quick fixes that might hopefully smooth the operation a little, namely we're going to insist that everyone who posts a for sale notice pays a CAT and we'll break down the boards into categories so things are more easily searchable.

In the meantime, please hang on in there and if it all gets too much there's always the hide thread/topic option .

Thanks for your input and your patience.

Peace and love,

Mumsnet Towers

2shoes, yes, I worry that if the sales board goes, then we will be overrun by sales threads in chat, or elsewhere. And that would be terribly annoying.

Seriously what exactly Is you're problem people???

Please explain in simple terms for all to see,read,understand!!!!!!

We,Us,They,Them rediculous(sp) no???

Mel

Hnybnch?

As in, HunnyBunch?

i think it is a deliberate attempt to get people going.

the point about hiding isthat

unless you are logged in

the sales threads dominate active convos

so to people who come to mn new or on pcs where for whatever reason you cant log in they appear to be the raison detre of mn

as to them appearing in chat or oither subjects etc as people circumvent nothing to stop there being a rule that says no sellling except thru whatever channel is chosen then the threads started elsewhere just get reported

i do think it is somewhat unsporting when people do that at the moment....a bit like people who park on the do not park signs outside schools or who go to the front of the queue...

Babieseverywhere, If I buy a second hand pushchair on mumsnet, the fact that it's second hand ticks the recyling box, surely?

It's not important (recycling-wise at least), if it comes from a regualar mumsnet mum or a trader.

For years I ran stalls selling second hand clothing. When someone decided to buy an item, they were giving it a new lease of life. Does that mean I wasn't part of the recycling chain?

In fact some of the biggest recyclers on mumsnet are (presumably) the traders - the ones sell lots second hand stuff at least.

Also,no seller can force a buyer to buy their stuff. All they can do is give buyers the opportunity to buy second hand for a stated price. So the more sellers, the greater the opportunity for buyers to decide not to buy new, but to recyle.

I do see what you mean about bad traders putting people off contributing to the selling threads. That limits the number of people selling/recycling. Obviously if regular mumsnetters are too scared to sell their items on the board then something needs to be done about it.

I agree that mumsnet need to regulate it - as the OP stated, MNHQ is planning an overhaul of the for sale boards.

Yes Tigermoth, recycling is great. But mumsnet is not a recycling site. Encouraging recycling is NOT the same as enouraging traders to flock here en masse just because they are great recyclers.

This is a parenting forum, where parents could help eachother to give unwanted items a new lease of life within this community. At least that is what used to be the point.

When the traders keep bumping and placing new adds all the time, sales adds, and also feedback forum is all you see in active convos unless you have hidden it. But a newbie wont have hidden it first time they come. They will think this is NOT a parenting forum, but just another secondhand market place. If they dont want to trade, they will leave. If trade is all they want they will stay.

And hey presto, by natural selection all the new members that join will be traders, because that is what they see!

WHich I suppose, to the likes of traders, such as you, would not be a bad thing.

So you see, it is them and us. Those who want more traders so they get more chances to sell and buy, and those who want more giving conversation, which there is getting less and less of.

All along I have said I think the for sale section should be taken off active convos You must have mistaken me for someone else.

I stongly agree that when new people log onto mumsnet talk they should not see a mass of for sale threads.

Yes, traders do put people off contributing to the selling threads and more importantly they swamp the lists and I bet put off potential new members from joining Mumsnet.

When I joined this was mainly a parenting board with a small selling board. Now it is changing into a selling board with millions of 'bump' posts by traders and the real meaty conversations are pushed out.

I come here to chat and seek advice with general well thinking mothers, I don't want to be cramped out by traders who is only here to make money and has zero community spirit.

I wonder how many people have visited the boards and left again because of the sale board ?

Mumsnet only works as mothers want to chat and new mothers join weekly. If the number of real members joining tails off, eventually we'll end up with empty main boards and a very active selling board.

So Mumsnet as it is currently stands, will no longer be here.

It would be interesting to see if MNHQ has witnessed any change in membership patterns recently. I wonder if they can evaluate this in much detail?

Sadly it is near impossible to guess how many potential new members have been put off the site.

I suppose it might be possible to monitor the semi-regular posters and see if they are becoming less active. No point looking at the very regular members posts as the 'die hard' members will cling on to this site until the bitter end.

I think the fact that the sales board with all the 'bumps' is currently classed as the 3rd busiest board. That fact scares me. The board with no real content and many 'bump' posts is therefore very likely to be encountered by potential members.

I think a fee system will help reduce the numbers of traders selling on mumsnet. It's not for me to suggest the details as I am an not familiar enough with the for sale boards here.

Tigermoth, I was not clear enough, I know you want the boards off talk, the point about all the sales threads in active convos was a reply to yet another poster saying "whats the problem, just hide".

TIgermoth, I feel the opposite about 'a fee system'.

IMO it would put many mothers (myself included) off selling on Mumsnet.

Yet will make no difference to the traders, they simply make so much money a fee would not affect them.

I suggested this lower down the thread. That the amount in cash that a member can sell should be introduced. If a member can only sell £50 worth of stuff a year, this would allow mothers to sell on unwanted stuff but cut out the traders.

Fair enough Quintessentialshadow

Babieseverywhere - that's a thought. A sliding scale of fees is another possibility, so small scale sellers don't get charged as much as large scale sellers. Something MNHQ needs to look into I guess.

It is hard to explain why I feel that buying and selling should go I must just me more conservative with a small c than I thought.

I post here because of the strong sense of community and altruism, the intelligent converstaion and at times quirkyness. This site seems to attract people who, although I may not always agree with. they interest me. I just feel this is being abused by the traders on the for sale boards which are meant for regular mumsnetters. If we could get rid of the traders and people selling anything not limited to babies then I would say keep it but I think tbh that is too much trouble and perhaps impossible.

I also think that if musnet are willing to spend the amount of time and effort needed to regulate these boards in ways I have seen suggested it will make this a second rate ebay and it would seem they would be happy with that, well I would not be. It would be like having a classifieds section in the Guardian ( or lets keep some political balance the Telegraph)selling half used perfume and dosgy prams, it just isn;t right. I also think it sends a message from mumsnet to us regulars who have built up this site and earnt it its repuation thanks but now we want to become an online carboot sale.

Coming at it from another slant I used to go to a mother and toddler group where people used to bring clothes to donate to other mums, some mums said they would love to pass on clothes but perhaps for a little bit if money, we agreed that was fine. But it only worked because we did not have hoards of people turning up selling unused gift sets and worse connning each other. If that had happned we would have to have stopped as we were primarily a parenting group not a trading post, the same stands for mumsnet.

I see what you mean Twinset, and I for one would be very sad if traders are not booted out one way or the other. I shopped around for forums, in the sense I had no qualms living Netmums during the "Nestle Wars". Not a threatened flounce at all, just a statement of fact: If Mumsnet is changed beyond the recognisable, what tempted me to join and that has kept me here, I would seek out another forum that would have the same appeal as mumsnet once had.

See what happens because people are hiding WANTED

Sadly I reckon for sales and wanted are going to just merge into other topics....

I'd make it so you have to physically go to a For Sale section.

Why not use the ebay method of charging a small amount to place the add, let folk bid and take a % of the sold price. Seems to work for them!

But then NadineBaggott why not just go to ebay if it is going to be so similar.

To everyone worried about "for sale" and "wanted" clogging active convos and putting off newbies etc - then the obvious thing to do, as I did indeed suggest in my very first post on this subject , is to make these boards Opt In rather than Opt Out.

Regular Mnetters will know they exist. Newbies will come to realise. But the boards still need a friendly bit of policing: no bumping, and a fee paid.

It would all work fine. Trust your aunty daphne.

ooo It's not got any better. Saw one thread started today with almost 1 bump per hour, no doubt the same item will turn up tomorrow with a new thread title.
Then you have the PLEASE BUY MY STUFF so I can a) go on holiday, b) send my kids to uni, c) fund my pram addiction

and I even saw one that was offering chocolate with every sale

I have just put 2 Leappad books on - lets see how soon they get buried

hey you can get things delivered now too

In 10 mins, my thread had 12 others above in in For Sale