What?

[JaneJeffer]

@MNHQ this deletion message is untrue and not fair to the OP of the thread.

Not trying to be chippy - I think MNHQ check Site Stuff in between dealing with reports, so may take a while, depending what else is going on

thank you @BoreOfWhabylon advice noted x

As I didn't want to report the OP of this post in case MNHQ deletes the thread, I emailed them directly to ask why the original thread was deleted. Tbh, I'm not expecting a reply any time soon( if at all) but I'll update if I do actually get a reply

I did this early on after OP posted, to ask for a reply from MNHQ

Glad to see mnhq were being vigilant. One thing that makes me uncomfortable about using mn is the transphobia in the 'feminist' group. Perhaps it got flagged because it was in chat?

The thread wasn't transphobic and neither were the OP's comments.

Morning all. We'll review this today and update as soon as we can.

Thanks @MichaelMumsnet

That’s good, I am very interested in why that deletion message was considered appropriate.

@autienotnaughty one if the very refreshing things about mn is that, unlike other platforms, women are allowed to discuss concerns with the modern trans ideology. If anything, the feminism section appears over-moderated to me and posters certainly have to be more careful with how they frame their argument than in other sections of mn, like AIBU.

Also an aside, but it wasn’t until I started using this site that I realised how the word ‘transphobia’ had completely lost its power because of overuse for any perceived disagreement with the dogma. I think that is a real shame because it dilutes the very real transphobia someone may be on the receiving end of.

@MrsDrake

Great post, particularly in relation to the true meaning of 'transphobia'.

Ooh. As a complete side note, I see the automatic bolding of tags (@) on the app is back! Thanks MN.

Hi all, and thanks for bearing with us.
We've had a chance to review the thread and the deletion message.
We took the thread down because it broke Talk guidelines - here's the message we posted on the thread:

Hello, all, and thanks to those who've reported this thread. We're going to take this thread down in a moment - we don't think the premise of it is conducive to civil debate and it breaks our Talk Guidelines.

Apologies for the confusion, this is what we should have also posted as the deletion message - it's not our policy to single out individual posters so we've updated the thread to match.

We've had some wider feedback about deletion messages not being clear enough, this is partly due to the new platform because there's a 'breaks Talk guidelines' message that's posted as standard. In most cases we should be giving you a clear reason for deletion.

As always, if you're unclear about a thread or post deletion, you can get in touch via contactus@mumsnet and we'll try to help.

Tosh. We were having a perfectly civil debate.

Seems to me that MNHQ is terrified of something or some entity the minute the T word is mentioned. So the easiest thing to do is take it down. They then don't have to spend hours monitoring what they consider might be comments "against the guidelines".

We are being silenced by a website for women about women, you know Adult Human Females. AIBU on the other hand is a free for all.

it's not our policy to single out individual posters so we've updated the thread to match
Do you mean the deleted thread @MichaelMumsnet ?

@MrsDrake I don't go on the feminist group threads very often but I'll be honest I've never seen a civil debate. An example would be, somebody posts a link to a newspaper article regarding a trans woman or trans rights or Emma Watson . Lots of people will say how awful it is that woman's rights are getting lost due to trans rights. A few people will challenge this offering a counter argument. They are immediately attacked for their 'non feminist' views until they disengage. That to me is not debate. Debate allows space for more than one view.

But you are right mn is a place for healthy debate and sharing of views and that works both way . Im sorry it was wrong of me to generalise that the feminist group are transphobic in my previous post of course that is not the case.

The reason I don't go on FWR much (despite being accused of spending too much time on it by a couple of posters on this thread) is that the contortions needed to discuss womens rights are head wrecking. I think the women who post there regularly are amazing with how they manage to do it whilst constantly being monitored and attacked.

That's not really a response tho, is it?

It's a typical MNHQ non response, in fact.

Where were the examples of uncivil discourse? Why not delete them & allow the thread to stand?

I think you are confusing people stating obvious logical facts regarding this situation, with lack of civility.

The points may be hard to read. It doesn't make them uncivil or untrue.

Yes @EarringsandLipstick updating a deleted thread really makes a difference to accusations against the OP 🙄

@MNHQ knew they were wrong hence the swift but not swift enough zapping of the deletion message.

Lots of people will say how awful it is that woman's rights are getting lost due to trans rights. A few people will challenge this offering a counter argument. They are immediately attacked for their 'non feminist' views until they disengage. That to me is not debate. Debate allows space for more than one view.

These responses are generally not attacks but requests for evidence, explanation, clarification.

All too often the ' counter arguments' boil down to opinions:

• I'm not bothered so I don't see why others should be.
• TWAW. There shouldn't be any debate.
• TW can access some womens' spaces/services/opportunities but not others.
• NAMALT
• biology doesn't count
• suicide, most oppressed, earned this.

None of which can ever be rationalised nor backed up with evidence. Unlike the GC feminist perspectives.

Simply stating opinions is not debate.

It was a completely appropriate picture of someone who was biologically capable of being pregnant.

The OP was "bothered" by their appearance. Which is pretty uncivil and is utterly unacceptable with anything else.

@JellySaurus it's really interesting because I would say it's the other way around. When I've tried to talk about safe spaces for everyone I get closed down for putting men and trans womens needs ahead of womens. When really what I'm to do is suggest a way forward that is inclusive for all.

So @SoupDragon you think a pregnant woman is not allowed to discuss on a supposed parenting site something that made her feel uncomfortable at her antenatal appointment and that a pregnant man is completely unremarkable?

I'd question your use of "appropriate", tbh, @SoupDragon

The OP was "bothered" by their appearance.

Yes. In the context of a photo of a man who appeared to be pregnant, in an antenatal clinic.

Context matters