Why is it suddenly ok to make multiple threads on the same subject over and over again?

[DayBath]

I'm talking about the Feminism board. Please could MN explain why it's ok for the same poster to keep starting new threads on the same topic repeatedly without the previous ones filling up or reaching any limit?

Surely there's a point where this is considered "not in the spirit" as you love to say. By all means this person should be allowed to post but why are repeated threads within hours of each other being allowed to cause Groundhog Day over there?

So it seems like the special rules for FWR only apply to us pesky women and that when individuals come here to deliberately goad, take screenshots and cause problems then rather than defending women MumsnetHQ will take their side and ignore or ban us for trying to defend our rights.
Or do I have that wrong

nah.

I found this site at the time of the Spartacus threads. That's how I got my name.

Actually @YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet, could you please clarify at what point

a) we can post to alert others that posts are being screenshot and posted to twitter, or that, such in this case, we had seen on twitter that this person was saying that they were reporting back?

b) it ended up last night that my user name got bandied around twitter by this poster stating false information about my posts. Can I clarify, if this happens and the poster can be identified as being the same, do they get banned from doing this or is this activity allowable?

@dragoncheeselady

So it seems like the special rules for FWR only apply to us pesky women and that when individuals come here to deliberately goad, take screenshots and cause problems then rather than defending women MumsnetHQ will take their side and ignore or ban us for trying to defend our rights. Or do I have that wrong

Perhaps we all need to say that we have special pronouns and a magical identity? That seems to act like teflon.

@Thecatonthemat

The problem with not allowing new posters to post is that the numerous women who have namechanged for whatever reason will also be affected...many have been on here for years . It does seem like double standards are being applied to strikes and deletions. And that certain people are overprotected.

But you name change in your existing account don't you, I have about 4 names readily available and can add more anytime. The system will recognise a name change from a completely new account.

Women having a voice and a discussion, one that's kept within the rules we have to follow in order not to get a strike, appears to be seen as hostile to trans people by some on twitter.

I'm not doubting the inconvenience it causes MNHQ but I don't think feminists have ever organised DDOS attacks or attempted to get companies to stop advertising with MN.

With the House of Lords debate last week and the judicial appeal to stop women being imprisoned with rapists this week, the attempts to silence women here are only going to increase.

@FlaviaAlbiaWantsLangClegBack

Women having a voice and a discussion, one that's kept within the rules we have to follow in order not to get a strike, appears to be seen as hostile to trans people by some on twitter.

I'm not doubting the inconvenience it causes MNHQ but I don't think feminists have ever organised DDOS attacks or attempted to get companies to stop advertising with MN.

With the House of Lords debate last week and the judicial appeal to stop women being imprisoned with rapists this week, the attempts to silence women here are only going to increase.

well said It would be nice to know if Mumsnet are going to stand with the women that make up the majority of their userbase or with the people who will turn on them for the slightest affront and keep organising DDOS attacks or attempting to sabotage their advertising revenue

This whole thing feels a bit like the regular posters have been held up as exhibits in a circus to curious Twitterers - roll-up, roll-up, come in and see the infamous Feminists! They're nice and friendly! You can even call them names they don't like and they won't react! Oh, that one did. Don't worry, we'll remove her. Plenty more to go round.

@OwBist

This whole thing feels a bit like the regular posters have been held up as exhibits in a circus to curious Twitterers - roll-up, roll-up, come in and see the infamous Feminists! They're nice and friendly! You can even call them names they don't like and they won't react! Oh, that one did. Don't worry, we'll remove her. Plenty more to go round.

That's exactly how it feels. It's sickening. And let's not forget that some members are paying to be treated like this.

And yes, I do realise that FWR is probably more trouble than any other boards, and attracts ddos attacks and threatens advertiser revenue due to external manipulation. It's a very fine tightrope which mnhq has to walk, but I think on this occasion they got it wrong.

@OwBist

And yes, I do realise that FWR is probably more trouble than any other boards, and attracts ddos attacks and threatens advertiser revenue due to external manipulation. It's a very fine tightrope which mnhq has to walk, but I think on this occasion they got it wrong.

When the co-op attempted to strong arm the Spectator, by threatening to pull their advertising, Andrew Neil said

"No need to bother, Co-op. As of today you are henceforth banned from advertising in The Spectator, in perpetuity. We will not have companies like yours use their financial might to try to influence our editorial content, which is entirely a matter for the editor."

Coop claimed, very quickly, that some intern had hold of their Twitter, and they didn't mean it.

It seemed to me that yesterday, MNHQ generously gave that poster a second chance, and they abused that trust. That screenshot upthread ... is that seriously ok? What condescending arrogance - that wasn't a person who really wanted to understand what the women here think, was it?

Maybe the last sentence re fixing the website does need some thought though.

Mock I'm curious as to why you're challenging our request to make MN a place where goady twats from SM sides come purely to stir the pot and get screen shots? I get you're opinion of the topics differs from many but these people are deliberately trying to sabotage debate. How is that helpful?

MNHQ generously gave that poster a second chance
And thanked them on Twitter for coming on to post!

I've just re-read the hq comment. The last part is worrying. Does this mean that posters who previously would have been called disruptors, goady, ploppers etc.. will be allowed to post without regard to the rules in order for future discussions to be "inclusive", even though it's acknowledged to be painful to others? Who will no doubt be hamstrung by those rules and not allowed to enter into a meaningful debate because their words are banned.

It's incredibly unfair to expect new posters to guess at the current mood regarding the political correctness of various terms

This, while at the same time

It's not surprising that some brand new posters aren't yet fully up to speed with site etiquette and we're inclined to take a laissez-faire approach to that

Is a very clear example of a double standard. If you're gc, you're supposed to follow all the written rules + a very nebulous set of unwritten ones that seem to change all the time. But if you're arguing on the other side, it's fine not to be "up to speed" with etiquette. Laissez-faire is one sided.

I would suggest that misgendering or using c.. is taken off the must be punished list. We have no idea what gender people have even if we believe such a thing exists and c.. can just roll on by. And that punishment and banishment is more evenly applied. At the moment shutting us up is not a good look

I asked MNHQ if they'd add that p word to the guidelines as it seems to uncannily always get deleted, quite quickly. But they 'don't think a list of banned or problematic phrases would be particularly useful'.

In a way, that's true. If one word is added, and people know not to use it, the people busy reporting posts will doubtless find another term to complain about. The guidelines are pretty long already - an ever increasing list of terms deemed problematic really wouldn't be a great look.

I think maybe some more distinction might be needed between 'civil' and 'welcoming'. Some viewpoints are simply not compatible with feminist views - that doesn't mean we can't have a civil discussion but it doesn't necessarily mean we have to lay down the red carpet and don extra soft kid gloves, does it?

The LGBT boards should be welcoming to people with the relevant characteristics. The feminist board should surely be allowed to be a tad more welcoming to feminists than those who don't prioritise the rights of females?

This whole thing feels a bit like the regular posters have been held up as exhibits in a circus to curious Twitterers - roll-up, roll-up, come in and see the infamous Feminists! They're nice and friendly! You can even call them names they don't like and they won't react! Oh, that one did. Don't worry, we'll remove her. Plenty more to go round.

This really. I don't know whether it's worth it anymore. And getting an email saying your post was deleted for making the site a hostile place to debate but don't worry, you won't get a strike this time makes me think 'fuck this', I'm not having this shit bleed into the rest of my life'.

The person who was trying to get Soreen to sever links with MN , in fact several of them , are PBP, yet the twitter account was encouraging them to come and chat to us.
There was no need to even reply to them, MN rarely interacts that much on Twitter.
It's not a good idea to chat to people who make it clear they wish to financially damage you and openly plan to report posts to get women silenced. The block or mute functions are priceless.

Its nice to say want a balance but as on the 'rapists in women's prison' thread 97/98% of site users agree with the FWR position. Trying to amplify the 2/3% so we can have an equal debate seems... I have no words...seems....hmm

Would you encourage a dog haters to go onto the pet boards to say they are awful animals and don't understand why everyone finds them cute? Just for a balanced debate?

The last time such Twitter brigading was encouraged it ended up with a MN user having her posts spread all over Twitter and vicious people wishing she would have a still birth or she would lose her pregnancy in various sadistic ways.

As you say , there is overlap between forums and social media anyway, but please don't encourage these open unashamed woman haters that you have already banned from MN. Please.

@OwBist

This whole thing feels a bit like the regular posters have been held up as exhibits in a circus to curious Twitterers - roll-up, roll-up, come in and see the infamous Feminists! They're nice and friendly! You can even call them names they don't like and they won't react! Oh, that one did. Don't worry, we'll remove her. Plenty more to go round.

That's exactly what it felt like.

@Waspnest

This whole thing feels a bit like the regular posters have been held up as exhibits in a circus to curious Twitterers - roll-up, roll-up, come in and see the infamous Feminists! They're nice and friendly! You can even call them names they don't like and they won't react! Oh, that one did. Don't worry, we'll remove her. Plenty more to go round.

This really. I don't know whether it's worth it anymore. And getting an email saying your post was deleted for making the site a hostile place to debate but don't worry, you won't get a strike this time makes me think 'fuck this', I'm not having this shit bleed into the rest of my life'.

I haven’t even had the courtesy of an email to say why I’ve been banned.

Things that seemed to annoy you in order to try to get you so angry that you posted something that got you deleted
The deletions were not even for grumpy or annoyed replies, some were for repeating what a mod had said about her previous thread, some asking to stop calling us cis, 'misgendering' and 'generalising' when the OP didn't even state pronouns until page 9 or 10 of one of her three threads.
She claimed it wasn't her reporting , so how did these mysterious strangers even know what pronouns she preferred???
The threads with all the deletions were then shared all over as proof that FWR is full evil transphobes to back up their previous claims of how horrible and bigoted MN is and to try and cause financial damage to the site.

This was a planned attack MN .
I don't expect you to make any public statement about it but really hope there is some discussion about it internally.

It won't be news to anyone reading this that MNHQ's commitment to hosting conversations on this difficult issue has been costly for us in lots of ways. It would be much easier for us to throw up our hands and say we won't host these discussions anymore, but we carry on because we believe it's the right thing to do. However the flip side of that is that it's absolutely crucial for us to be inclusive to voices from both 'sides' - because if we aren't, we're not hosting a discussion: we're hosting a filter bubble. There's no running away from the fact that in some circles FWR is regarded as being hostile to trans people and we're determined to show that we are not

That seems fair, and appreciate it must be difficult to find a "happy" balance.

A diversity of voices means there will be threads and posts outlining positions that many in FWR strongly disagree with. This may feel like goadery to some but, frankly, we disagree

That's good to know as in, people who are genuinely just bringing a different viewpoint to the thread or disagreeing with someone are "rounded on" (for want of a better expression), accused of sealioning/goading etc and isn't tolerated as much as it was before.
Obviously people who genuinely are there to stir up trouble shouldn't be tolerated, but different voices shouldn't be drowned out like they usually are.
So I think the comment of MNHQ upthread is a fair one on balance, must be bloody difficult lol

Adding my voice. The recent activity is tedious and unhelpful. Definitely not in the spirit of uplifting feminism & women's rights discussion.