The deletion of the Upfield thread on AIBU

[PencilsInSpace]

Deletion message: Hi all, as there is already an active thread about this subject on the Feminism boards we're going to close this one.

I don't understand or agree with this decision.

1. people often start threads on the same subject on different boards - is it a new rule that there can only be one?

2. Lots of posters hide FWR so might not know what has happened

3. Upfield made their insinuations against all of MN, not just FWR

Can you say a bit more about your decision please?

Well, it now seems rhe Twittersphere thinks rhe Mumsnet statement says “Transwomen aren’t women and they are coming for our children”

Rose of Dawn is putting up a reasoned defence.

Well, it now seems rhe Twittersphere thinks rhe Mumsnet statement says “Transwomen aren’t women and they are coming for our children”

Honestly. They couldn't sound more unhinged.

They call the women bigots and transphobes, but don't say why, and can't point to any transphobic content.

How can you point to posts that have been deleted? And if anyone does re post them as an example, in order to obey the demand, then they'll get deleted anyway.

We all know that there are many trans phobic comments made on there and to pretend otherwise is disingenuous.

We all know that there are many trans phobic comments made on there and to pretend otherwise is disingenuous.

There are tens of thousands of posts on FWR, and very few get deleted. Usually it's a mistake where someone misgenders someone.

Calling men, men, is a very basic tenet of Feminism. If you think that's unfair on men, then obviously feminism isn't for you.

We even have the rule where you're not allowed to generalise! Can you imagine that elsewhere?!

Dog owners don't... Tories like to...

Calling men, men is fair enough.

I don't see the need to call trans women men though, nor trans men women.

Yes, of course there are transphobic comments on Mumsnet. Also racist, sexist, disablist, ageist and just downright vile comments. The issue is what defines a transphobic comment. As I said earlier there are circles where expressing any unease or concern about self ID at all for example is labelled transphobic. Any suggestion that there are discussions to be had about crime stats,transing children, women’s sport is by definition . As people used to say #NoDebate.

I don't see the need to call trans women men though, nor trans men women.

In feminism, there are only two cohorts to be concerned about. One cohort oppresses the other. If you can't identify who is in which cohort, you're fucked.

Well there you go then.

That's why many people choose to hide the FWR board because that isn't the branch of feminism that they want to engage with.

The brand of feminism that recognizes what a woman is

Yes how awful

I'm more than happy to ignore people who hide information about the the 'branch' of feminism that centres women 😊

Hiya - yes this was a mistake. We meant to close it while the mods caught up but deleted in error. It's back up now. apols

And I'm not holding FWR to higher standards than other boards. I've just never seen the same level of condescension, vitriol, taunting, ganging up on, self congratulatory back slapping at having delivered
a witty put down as I have on FWR
You are kidding right? You cant have read much else on this site if you think that's true. I have had my arse handed to me many times everywhere else on mumsnet except fwr. No I'm not trawling through aside from I cant remember most of my previous usernames,

For someone who professes to dislike fwr so much because of the vitriol,you appear to know a hell of a lot that goes on there.

“ That's why many people choose to hide the FWR board because that isn't the branch of feminism that they want to engage with.”
Why would you hide something just because you disagree with it? I disagree profoundly with leaving the EU- but I still read what leavers have got to say. I might learn something! And even if I don’t- it’s always useful to see what the “enemy’s” got to say!

Thanks Justine and thanks for the Twitter statement too.
I don’t always agree with TG’s but try my best to stay inside them, as well as turning my adblocker off for MN. Because I really do appreciate the space you provide where I learn so much from other women.

(Wrong thread, though it applies here too)

In feminism, there are only two cohorts to be concerned about. One cohort oppresses the other. If you can't identify who is in which cohort, you're fucked.

//This. It all comes down to this. And we're called bigots for stating biological fucking facts.

And it makes me sad to say this as I will continue to push back oppression affecting any Adult Human Female regardless of her beliefs, but if a fellow MN is offended by this and feels compelled to to hide FWR, that's their decision. I think it's cutting off ones nose to spite ones face as there is so much knowledge there. Bertrand you make an excellent comparison, thanks. (I hope that wasn't too back slappy ).

Why would you hide something just because you disagree with it?

Because for me, I can't just sit by and read something that I disagree without speaking out but I find it too difficult to be faced with it all of the time.

Reading FWR now is a bit like groundhog Day, it's just the same points being made and re made over and over again. I am choosing not to look at it most of the time because I do find many of the views expressed on there almost joyful in their hatred.

Again, I just don't see the need to have to be so gleeful in calling calling a trans woman "he" when the same point could be made either using their name or referring to them as a trans woman. The same facts are being stated, the same point being made just without the added layer on top.

Gosh, you seem very invested here Tequila.

It is like Groundhog Day I agree. Because people keep saying the same things over and over again. Your argument is basically 'why can't you just be kind and use compelled speech?'

I cannot - will not - refer to a man as a woman. Because that is what I used to do. And you know what? That led to 'well if you're going to call me she and a woman, that means I am the same as you. That means I should be able to use your changing rooms and toilets and play in your sports teams and be in the hospital bed opposite you.'

So no. I won't do that any more.

YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet and justine

Thanks

I hate it when people invest words on a screen with emotions

Its impossible to do that, you have no idea what the poster is feeling

And it usually is intended to disparage the original poster and their words

Dreadful behaviour

Yes, posters keep saying the same thing over and over again.
Then they name change, come back and post the same thing over and over again.

And I'm not holding FWR to higher standards than other boards. I've just never seen the same level of condescension, vitriol, taunting, ganging up on, self congratulatory back slapping at having delivered
a witty put down as I have on FWR

FWR is held to far higher standards than any other board on MN, it is the only board where specific rules have been invented to curb discussion, it is the only board that is regularly watched by outsiders who gleefully report any minor slip up and consistently target certain posters with the aim of getting them banned.

Are you seriously saying you have never seen condescension, vitriol, taunting, ganging up on, self congratulatory back slapping at having delivered a witty put down on any other board on this site? If you are I don't believe you have been on here very long or read much of any other board because it is rife. AIBU is a bear pit and all the above can be found there as well as on Chat. As Bernard said just try starting a thread saying you need to re-home your dog or cat due to an unexpected change in circumstances, or you are considering having them put to sleep, you will see absolute gold plated vitriol.

Weirdly, when I first joined MN the Board to avoid if you didn't want to be torn to shreds was Style & Beauty.

And it usually is intended to disparage the original poster and their words Dreadful behaviour

See, I don't get how you can say this, oh it's dreadful! When you're right there agreeing usually with those who do it regularly, or going "oh, they didn't mean it like that really" um YES - sometimes it's crystal clear what they're doing.
But now you're saying it is dreadful?
So why do people do it then?
MRA, TRA, man, bot from America/Russia etc if you disagree to, in your words "disparage posters and their words" = planting the seed of doub against those with other viewpoints.
You're right it is dreadful behaviour

Weirdly, when I first joined MN the Board to avoid if you didn't want to be torn to shreds was Style & Beauty

Thats very true...I think its still fairly scary