Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Site stuff

Join our Innovation Panel to try new features early and help make Mumsnet better.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

The deletion of the Upfield thread on AIBU

255 replies

PencilsInSpace · 11/10/2019 22:05

Deletion message: Hi all, as there is already an active thread about this subject on the Feminism boards we're going to close this one.

I don't understand or agree with this decision.

  1. people often start threads on the same subject on different boards - is it a new rule that there can only be one?

  2. Lots of posters hide FWR so might not know what has happened

  3. Upfield made their insinuations against all of MN, not just FWR

Can you say a bit more about your decision please?

OP posts:
tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 12/10/2019 11:51

NoCause but it's the shouty minority which openly declares death threats to GC women on Twitter, succeed in shutting down debate and meetings of GC women and who have the power to send police knocking on the doors of GC women!

And GC women are hauled over the calls for pushing back Angry

BertrandRussell · 12/10/2019 11:54

And very few transpeople seem to be speaking out against the shouty minority.

BertrandRussell · 12/10/2019 11:58

One of the genuinely transphobic things I have seen on Mumsnet is a reaction to a video by Blaire White. She was saying all sorts of things that chime very well with GC feminist thinking, but was criticised and in some cases dismissed because of her appearance and general presentation.

TheAlternativeTentacle · 12/10/2019 12:17

One of the genuinely transphobic things I have seen on Mumsnet is a reaction to a video by Blaire White. She was saying all sorts of things that chime very well with GC feminist thinking, but was criticised and in some cases dismissed because of her appearance and general presentation.

Women get dismissed because of their appearance and general presentation all the time. So is treating Blaire just like they would a woman, actually be the opposite of transphobia?

Aberhonddu · 12/10/2019 12:21

TequilaPilates
It doesn't make sense. A comment was deleted You could post 100 undeleted comments but it doesn't prove that the 1 deleted comment wasn't offensive does it?

The only way for people to decide if the deleted comment was offensive is to show them the deleted comment, not a comment that wasn't deleted.
Perhaps you don't understand what the moderators do on FWR, they delete offensive comments.
Datun re posted the comment in language that is allowed to highlight the fact that posters on FWR end up tying themselves up in linguistic knots to avoid offensive language.
Why on Earth do you think that you can demand that another poster posts a deleted comment so that you and others can decide if it's offensive.
It was OFFENSIVE so it was deleted.

TequilaPilates · 12/10/2019 12:22

Actually, surely what it means was that someone was a dick and apologised for it. Which is an incredibly unusual thing to happen!

What it means is that someone had to leave the thread they were on and then start another thread where they got an apology from one poster - but how many others, when treated the same way, just leave never to return?

And I'm not holding FWR to higher standards than other boards. I've just never seen the same level of condescension, vitriol, taunting, ganging up on, self congratulatory back slapping at having delivered a witty put down as I have on FWR.

You don't seem to care that many women are actually hiding that board because of what happens on there.

BertrandRussell · 12/10/2019 12:28

“ You don't seem to care that many women are actually hiding that board because of what happens on there.”

I do care- very much. And I would like to do something about it. That’s why I ask for examples. Because it is honestly not something I see. Obviously that could be because I’m one of the guilty parties.

But it is also important to remember that since the beginning of feminism, it has been discredited and derailed by accusations of being unkind and unpleasant. And also shrill, hysterical, unwomanly and so on......

NeurotrashWarrior · 12/10/2019 12:30

Actually I care so I tend to be moderate as I do think of the lurkers but also I'm crap at being witty.

I also remember finding sarky comments on a relationship board post very difficult to handle as I simply didn't understand the perspective - yet.

However those comments tend to be reserved for people with known history of doing exactly the same and goady fuckers.

As someone who spends far to much time on fwr (since pregnancy and mammoth amounts of breastfeeding) what you are talking about is very infrequent. I've had it directed to me over drag and if I'm honest it made me reevaluate my thoughts as well as get a thicker skin. I'm still evaluating my feelings around it.

BertrandRussell · 12/10/2019 12:30

“ Women get dismissed because of their appearance and general presentation all the time. So is treating Blaire just like they would a woman, actually be the opposite of transphobia?”
Not on the FWR boards, one hopes. And much of rhe discussion was about whether she “passed” or not....

TequilaPilates · 12/10/2019 12:31

Aberhonddu

I am not demanding that someone posts a deleted comment.

I am saying don't post an undeleted comment and say "look at how we have to post in order not to get deleted".

That just isn't true. That undeleted post was over exaggerated to try and make a point.

The offensive post was now doubt deleted because it misgendered someone, hence the very long winded undeleted comment.

There's no need for it. You don't have to post in such a way to avoid deletion. Nor do you have to apply pronouns that you disagree with. You could use the person's name for example or refer to a trans man or a trans woman. I fail to see why you have to refer to a trans woman as "he" or, as I've seen many times "a man in a frock" other than to be hateful and offensive

NeurotrashWarrior · 12/10/2019 12:32

One of the genuinely transphobic things I have seen on Mumsnet is a reaction to a video by Blaire White. She was saying all sorts of things that chime very well with GC feminist thinking, but was criticised and in some cases dismissed because of her appearance and general presentation.

This is an excellent point.

TequilaPilates · 12/10/2019 12:34

Because it is honestly not something I see.

"There's none so blind as those that will not see" is the old adage isn't it?

Aberhonddu · 12/10/2019 12:53

@TequilaPilates
There's no need for it. You don't have to post in such a way to avoid deletion. Nor do you have to apply pronouns that you disagree with. You could use the person's name for example or refer to a trans man or a trans woman. I fail to see why you have to refer to a trans woman as "he" or, as I've seen many times "a man in a frock" other than to be hateful and offensive
As you bolded my name I assume that you've directed this comment to me, I'm extremely angry that you've effectively accused me of using very offensive terms about Trans people.
If this is how you respond to women on FWR then it's absolutely clear why you feel hounded.
You've got a dammed fucking cheek.

BertrandRussell · 12/10/2019 12:56

“ Because it is honestly not something I see.

"There's none so blind as those that will not see" is the old adage isn't it?”
I did say that I might be part of the problem- which is why I want to know more about it.

But it is very odd that nobody can ever come up with examples of people being ripped to shreds. Given 15 minutes I could come up with multiple examples of it happening on the DogBoard, or on AIBU, or Relationahips. I could even link to a thread a few years ago when I posted objecting to a police officer killed while on duty being referred to as a girl, and had a 1000 post pile on! But you can’t come up with examples from FWR...

TequilaPilates · 12/10/2019 13:01

Aberhonddu

I bolded your name because I was replying to your post upthread where you quoted me. I'm not accusing you if anything, I was replying to the points made in your post.

Do you not know how this works? Plus, I bolded your name, rather than @you, because posters on FWR don't like to be @ted.

Aberhonddu · 12/10/2019 13:02

@TequilaPilates
Go on then, find a post where I've used those offensive terms. You most definitely not be able to, not because my offensive posts have been deleted.
You won't find them because I have never used those terms and I'm really fucking angry that you've effectively defamed/slandered me. I don't even want to refer to the terms in my response to you because they are offensive.

Aberhonddu · 12/10/2019 13:06

Yes, I do know how this works, you don't have the slightest idea

TequilaPilates · 12/10/2019 13:07

BertrandRussell

What's the favourite phrase on FWR - "you're not posting in good faith"? Well,that.

You know as well as I do the type of comments that I'm referring to. The posts where people get shouted down, get dismissed as being a man, have endless recipes posted in response to points made, have their posts twisted, have endless comments of "so define woman" over and over again, or "show me examples" when they know that you can't because they've been deleted.

I've seen you posting on threads where these things have happened so if you haven't been aware of it it's because you've chosen to ignore it. I have neither the time not inclination to read through threads to find quotes for you. They are there for you to see for yourself.

BertrandRussell · 12/10/2019 13:12

Ah. So you are posting about FWR’s response to trolls, rather than FWR’s response to genuine posters. You think people should be nicer to trolls. Well, that’s an interesting position......

TequilaPilates · 12/10/2019 13:13

Aberhonddu

I haven't said that you've said anything. I was replying to the comments that you made upthread.

The "you" in my post is a general you, not you personally.

I was answering the points in the post that you tagged me in and saying that posters on FWR don't have to post offensive comments in order to make their point. The same point can be made without being offensive.

It was not accusing you personally but addressing the general "you".

Cohle · 12/10/2019 13:13

I have no idea how someone could read this thread and be shocked that many posters choose not to engage with the FWR board anymore.

Datun · 12/10/2019 13:15

There is patently nowhere near the slanging match on FWR that there is elsewhere.

What it means is that someone had to leave the thread they were on and then start another thread where they got an apology from one poster

They didn't have to do anything. From what I remember, most people would have misconstrued what the poster said, but only one poster said anything about it. As soon as she was corrected, I believe she said sorry on the same thread.

But I can promise you it was nothing like 'you pathetic bitch' to the poster on AIBU who wondered if raising children was easier in the old days.

And never would be.

And in terms of the linguist gymnastics Barracker was reduced to - she was commenting on a film on an American CNN programme. Where the names of the people were not made clear. But their sex, despite their gender presentation, was made abundantly clear.

The reality is you had a situation that was comedically being dominated by a male born individual, to the detriment of both a female born individual and a female child. The female child, happened to identify as male and the male born individual as female

The ludicrous of this situation and the transparent demonstration of power lies in the fact that no one can say what they see.

They can't identify misogyny, they can't identify sexism, they can't identify male dominance.

So if you think it's ok that women have to talk about humans in terms of eggs and sperm, and whether they would have body autonomy should they be humans who gestate, in order to identify their oppression, then you're part of it.

Try talking about racism if you're not allowed to mention the words black or white. Or if you do, they could apply equally to both white people and black people.

TequilaPilates · 12/10/2019 13:15

Ah. So you are posting about FWR’s response to trolls, rather than FWR’s response to genuine posters. You think people should be nicer to trolls. Well, that’s an interesting position......

Well, who decides who is a troll? Basically anyone that posts an alternative view on there is deemed to be a troll, so my points stand.

Genuine posters are accused of being and are a treated like trolls, which in turn puts genuine people off of posting on there which is what you are saying you don't want.

Aberhonddu · 12/10/2019 13:19

TequilaPilates

Message deleted

Datun · 12/10/2019 13:21

It's easy to spot a troll on FWR 🤣

They call the women bigots and transphobes, but don't say why, and can't point to any transphobic content. Then they swear at us and flounce. It's like clockwork.

It's a polarising debate. So you need to come armed with something better than insults.

Swipe left for the next trending thread