RACIST POSTS ABOUT MEGAN MARKLE

[CrazyDuchess]

Time and time again this argument on Mumsnet about why you allow racist threads to stand for so long and take little action?

You assured us before that "lessons have been learnt" and all that rubbish but yet again here I am arguing with some other posters and your staff about whether a thread is racist??

But that doesn't make everyone who think she touches her stomach too much a racist.

Again no one said the here in this post??? That is not what this thread is about and it's pretty harmful for you to frame the argument in that manner - basically implying we are seeing racism where there is none, that we are overreacting.

It's minimising and details from the actual issue - which is does MNHQ respond appropriately to clear overt racist posts - the answer is no.

As do the more casual, insidious racism that some of you seem to be struggling with - I can't help you with that. But just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

@Motherofcreek I said this in response to the whole quote not just 'strutting around'.

A while ago she, a Cambridge graduate and the first ever black female MP, was described as "strutting around like the secretary from the typing pool who's been sleeping with the boss". Now that wasn't so much a dog whistle as a foghorn.

I sorry you think my post was minimising and that this thread hasn't gone in the direction you wanted.

I think I was pretty clear that I recognise MM has absolutely been the victim of racism both directly and (in a post down thread) via insidious, "dog whistle" comments.

But that doesn't make everyone who think she touches her stomach too much a racist.

Quite a nice straw man you've built there.

But just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

And frankly just to add to this I don't see it as my job to 'educate' or 'inform' people about it. It's not my job to 'teach' others about offence. People have brains and can and should be able to work these things out. Again, it isn't rocket science.

I sorry you think my post was minimising and that this thread hasn't gone in the direction you wanted.

Not at all - my objective when I started thus thread was to highlight the inadequate reporting system for racist posts - have done that.

Everything else is a bonus!

Calla but how do you differentiate from just being down right sexist - which goes across the board to it being racist because purely it was said about a black woman.

If a black woman and a white women were called exactly the same thing - would it automatically become racist towards the black woman?

how do you differentiate from just being down right sexist

Racism and sexism are not mutually exclusive.

lol not liking megan markle makes you racist?

i can't bear the woman, but im not racist

lol not liking megan markle makes you racist?

And where was that said?

Racism and sexism are not mutually exclusive

That doesn’t answer my point though.

Are you saying that if a white woman and a black woman were called exactly the same thing - it would automatically become racist towards the black woman?

Surely that depends on what they are called?

Are you saying that if a white woman and a black woman were called exactly the same thing - it would automatically become racist towards the black woman?

I'll come out with it and just yes. Yes it would be racist towards the black woman. And to understand why you only have to pick up a history book. Your false equivalence question doesn't really work.

I'm basing my answer on the presumption that both women were called something like 'uppity' or 'bossy' or 'loud' or any number of words that take on a different meaning when used to describe a black woman. 'Loud'/'Bossy' stemming from the well worn 'Angry Black Woman' trope.

I’d like any views left on a thread. Im not a fan of censoring comments - let people have thier say and let people make up thier own minds.

I think this far left idea of not allowing opinions which are different are as dangerous as a lot of far right views. If we are allowed to be gender critical why can’t we be Meghan critical?

Personally I am indifferent to Meghan but think it’s good to have some outside genes mixing in with the massively inbred gene pool currently in the royal family.

Are you saying that if a white woman and a black woman were called exactly the same thing - it would automatically become racist towards the black woman?

Sometimes, yes. Barbara Bush was often called "bossy and in charge." It was perceived as charming, even lovable. Michelle Obama was often called "bossy and in charge." It generated thousands of racists "angry black woman" memes and tropes.

If we are allowed to be gender critical why can’t we be Meghan critical?

It's not the same thing at all. And anyway, no one is saying you can't be Meghan critical. We're saying don't be racist. And racist language is harmful, especially when directed toward a real person.

If we are allowed to be gender critical why can’t we be Meghan critical?

Literally no-one has said MM is above criticism - that's not what this thread and the various tangents it's taken have suggested. I sometimes think she should fire whoever makes her hats but when posters sink to lower levels of describing her as not quite "the English rose" they'd always hoped Harry would end up with, I find myself a bit

So By your standards you can’t say anything negative about a black woman because somewhere down the line it could be possible that it could be linked to racism even if it was no way intended that way.

No. That's not what I said or meant at all. But at this point I give up.

But for the record: this notion of

even if it was no way intended that way

is a very very very slippery slope. It's that sort of logic why people can get away with saying things like: "Sorry if you were offended" or "Sorry if my comments caused offence." You need to own it.

But at this point I give up

Yep. When people start talking about returning from holiday with a sun tan as if that gives them insight into life as a BME person, putting up a repeating line of straw men, wanting racist comments kept as "free speech" there is simply no point in trying to explain or discuss constructively.

For anyone who actually wants to understand there is plenty of material out there. You could try this too: www.amazon.co.uk/Longer-Talking-White-People-About/dp/1408870584/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

There are none so blind as those who choose not to see.

It's not exactly surprising that people think Megan is being treated more harshly in the press etc than other Royals if that's their view of what constitutes racism then is it?

If you say exactly the same thing about her as you do about Kate, with exactly the same intention and thought process behind it, then supposedly you could be being racist?

is a very very very slippery slope. It's that sort of logic why people can get away with saying things like: "Sorry if you were offended" or "Sorry if my comments caused offence." You need to own it

But if it’s an innocuous word and there is no documentation that it’s a racist how the hell are people supposed to know? It’s purely on how the person who recieves it takes it. Which is moving the barriers and not fair.

Are you seriously telling me if I said to any one my non white friends -

‘Get you strutting about in your new shoes’ she should take that offensively?

Should we never use the words proud or vain either?

@Motherofcreek You are now decidedly actually consciously missing the point. The clue is in your sentence: "friends." My friends and I call each other names which would have me hauled up to HR were I to use those terms in the work place.

Your point(s) fall apart due to false equivalence.