Mumsnet moderation of trans rights and gender critical issues

[JustineMumsnet]

Hi all,
We've given lots of thought to our moderation policies around trans rights and sex and gender issues and thought it would be a good idea to articulate where we stand in the form of a clear statement, so everyone can be clear about our moderation going forward. You can find it here. Hope it provides a helpful reference point. Thanks.

"Apols, there was a lack of clarity(!) in my Ian Huntley clarification - we are unlikely to delete male pronouns in this instance. We have left flexibility for situations like this by saying that a given expression is likely, rather than certain, to be deleted."

Based on what?

Do people forfeit their Mumsnet-given right to preferred pronouns if they are criminals? How would this work? Would Tara Hudson, who was imprisoned for assaulting a barman, be entitled to female pronouns?

I mean presumably it makes no sense in a discussion about biologically male prisoners in female prisons to compel people to use the female pronoun, but doesn't that basically apply to everything? If you are having a discussion about a transgender person in an athletics competition and the unfairness of that in terms of basic biology, it makes a nonsense of the entire conversation to be compelled to refer to that person as 'she'?

Does it make sense in a discussion of, say, biological males in a women's refuge to be compelled to use the female pronoun?

Is 'mansplain' forbidden if someone identifies as a woman, even if they, er, are mansplaining?

Incidentally 'cisgender' is the correct term as defined by the World Health Organisation
www.who.int/gender-equity-rights/news/20170227-health-and-sexual-diversity-faq.pdf

I have never once used the term 'Terf'

Sorry copy and paste double mistake above.

It is a political term.

The forums on gender at Mumsnet have for a long time been a horrible place for anyone who advocates for LGBTQ+ rights

There are no forums on gender. What the fuck is he on about?

THIS IS THE FEMINISM BOARD. TO DISCUSS THE RIGHTS OF FEMALE GIRLS AND WOMAN AND EVERYTHING THAT AFFECTS THEM!

Personally I think after x number of deletions you could look at a persons posts, their posting history and the patterns of the reports against them - this is where coercive control training for mods would be useful.

This is going to be another huge problem. We're gonna have TA's false flagging certain comments and commenters as a targeted attack to get them suspended. I just KNOW that's going to happen.

"We're likely to delete this term however it's used. 'Trans-identified' seems pretty goady - people generally don't identify as trans but as the opposite sex. As someone said up thread, one person can't really tell another how they identify, even if they disagree with the logic. "

So 'female-identified male' instead?

We are not effing isomers and I do not give a flying fuck what some effing d00dbroz decide to call women who refuse to submit to male dominance.

I haven’t read the whole thread, there’s a lot of it, so you’ve probably moved on or may have already decided on appropriate terminology, but I was thinking, instead of TIM, could we have BMTP, biologically male trans-person? In the new guidelines it states that we are allowed to talk about Biology, and BMTP directly references the fact we are talking about biology. You can’t tell people they are allowed to talk about biology, then ban them for directly referencing biology…?
I can’t believe I’m writing a post about the fact that we are allowed to talk about biology. It’s 2018, not 19 fucking 84.

We are not effing isomers

I fucking salute you Bewilderness

Congratulations, placemats!

THIS IS THE FEMINISM BOARD. TO DISCUSS THE RIGHTS OF FEMALE GIRLS AND WOMAN AND EVERYTHING THAT AFFECTS THEM!

Yes, this ^

I think Twitter is a hostile place for Lesbians at the moment - lesbians that try to explain nicely that they are not interested in sleeping with people with penises, howsoever they identify... are called bigots and transphobes.

Write an article on that, Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms GuardianJourno.

This is going to be another huge problem. We're gonna have TA's false flagging certain comments and commenters as a targeted attack to get them suspended. I just KNOW that's going to happen.

It has been happening for some time.
Gender critical women who say "on the internet no one knows you are a potato" or "yawn" will have the post deleted but if an anti feminist says so it does not violate talk guidelines. This is I suppose why people have gotten so frustrated with the mods and why instead of telling off the mods for their bias MN decided to tell off the posters for being rude to the mods.

"So 'female-identified male' instead?"

If someone travels the world on a female passport and visits countries where women have few rights, why can't you respect her enough to call her a woman? So no. The male bit in there is insulting to people who are living their lives as women, who are women.

And the female bit insults GC feminists

It seems that the LGBT spox have gotten used to leaving out the Lesbians when they talk about LGBT people. Remarkably similar to the way the men compare women to people essentially leaving women out of people, innit?
Maybe the Lesbians should tell their so called representative that they do not appreciate being dismissed this way.
There is the possibility however that when the d00d say lesbians he means males who identify as lesbians.

Changing your passport and all the surgery inhr world doesn’t come change your biology.

I’ll use she if that’s what the person wants. Doesn’t make them female.

The male bit in there is insulting to people who are living their lives as women, who are women.

To someone who takes the objective reality-based standpoint that woman = adult human female, though, this simply isn't true.

You can disagree with it, because you obviously define 'woman' differently, in a nebulous way that relates to gendered feelings. But isn't it obvious why those who don't share your ideology are opposed to calling male people women or females?

WNTT is streaming live now...
www.facebook.com/DRradfem/videos/2157764721109127/

What are MNHQ afraid of? Genuine question. What leverage is being applied here? WHO is putting this pressure on?

Being sued? For what? Reddit don’t get sued. Or if they do they dgaf. Could you even be sued? So far it’s not illegal to discuss biology. Hateful/inciteful posts have always rightly been modded and will continue to be so.

Losing advertisers? The women hold the purse strings - 70% of household spending isn’t it? And millions of unique users here. Vocal activist spending power vs millions of MN users spending power? No contest. Advertisers must know this surely?

Personal attack? This is of course extremely serious (cf previous swatting attack) and something the police would need to be involved in. Sincerely hope this is not the case.

Hacking? GDPR is on your side now.

What are you scared of? Where is the pressure coming from? And I say this in genuine intent: Why can’t you just put down a line in the sand, realise that they will never be appeased and do what you do with all abusers; tell them that NO is a complete sentence. Then a cheery feck orf when they come at you.

Can they really hurt you? I don’t think they can. Be strong, MNHQ. Don’t give in to bullies. You never have before.

Is there a current spartacus thread or all they all getting deleted?

I am Spartacus.

I a mumsnetter, I came here as I am a Mum. I was able to become a mother as I have an adult female body. I am a woman.

If I had produced sperm, I would have been a man.

Im baffled why anyone who thinks that is offensive is here.

Is there a current spartacus thread or all they all getting deleted?

I am Spartacus.

I a mumsnetter, I came here as I am a Mum. I was able to become a mother as I have an adult female body. I am a woman.

If I had produced sperm, I would have been a man.

Im baffled why anyone who thinks that is offensive is here.

goo.gl/images/GMRnaD