Mumsnet moderation of trans rights and gender critical issues

[JustineMumsnet]

Hi all,
We've given lots of thought to our moderation policies around trans rights and sex and gender issues and thought it would be a good idea to articulate where we stand in the form of a clear statement, so everyone can be clear about our moderation going forward. You can find it here. Hope it provides a helpful reference point. Thanks.

Female identifying male? FIM

Langcleg so you agree that geese are ganders?

Bugger. You noticed! I realised as soon as I pressed post!

So the only term that has been specifically banned is TiM? Is that correct?

MN are saying that people aren't identifying as trans [baffled]

But they are trans, whether they identify as it or not. What should we call people who are male, have XY chromosomes but choose to change their behaviour (how I don't know) and occasionally their appearance and anatomy to look more like women?

Surely you don't expect us to just accept that male people are to be called women just because they want to be?

Placemark

Dear @MNHQ

Thanks for letting us know the guidelines.
Personally, I think the previous guidelines were perfectly adequate to keep civil conversations going.
I understand that you are a business and that a very loud minority might be causing you trouble with ads revenue and forcing you to tighten the guidelines.
However, these people won't stop until they've managed to shut all debate on this subject. The words which you flagged to merit deletion (genitalia - seriously?) are frankly not insults. Some people are offended by them, others aren't. I don't see this strategy working in the long run.
I mean, where does it stop?
The answer is, if you allow it once, it won't stop.

"Freedom is the right to tell people what they don't want to hear"
George Orwell

@MNHQ The aggressive activist lobby will not stop until you’ve closed down FWR altogether. They will not stop - you need to take that on board. Nothing you do will appease them, no guideline or banning of this word or that. Their goal is not debate, its erasure.
Now that the three strike policy is out in the Wild I predict an avalanche of reporting targeted at specific posters.

Moderate aggressive behaviour, threats, incitement, trolls, GFs, genuine hate speech etc. That’s what you’ve always done and you do it well.

But they are not going to stop until they’ve closed you down. They want MN to stop existing. I can’t stress this enough - you’re not dealing with people who will say ‘yes this is reasonable let’s all get on with it.’ Nothing you do will ever be enough.

A male human who is also trans?

Oh, except for Ian Huntley, obviously.

Because he can't be trans, can he? The nasty murdering MAN that he is [cynical]

www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jun/13/mumsnet-transgender-row-feminism-tougher-forum-rules

From that link:

Last month a group of women broke into a men-only swimming pool in north London in protest at proposed changes to gender identification laws, following a campaign that originated on the Mumsnet forums. The protestors, who insisted that they self-identified as male, claimed the changes enable predatory men to target women in single-sex facilities. Sic - thus it was written.

Could SwearyG confirm the break in? Interesting spelling of protestors.

The Guardian piece makes rather depressing reading.

"Mumsnet has been forced to introduce tough new rules ..."

Protesters.

Here, MNHQ, make us a new pair of emojis.

One with tiny ovaries and a uterus, the other with testicles and a penis.
Just teeny naked human reproductive systems.
[ovaries] ... [balls]
I'll use them in place of the words that once meant ActualHumanWithOneOfTheseReproductiveSystems but now mean HowIFeelAndDon'tChallengeMeBigot
Let them be a truthful visual representation of truthful bodily reality where words are censored.

And when someone pops up to censor the little visual representations of biology there will be no more ground to cede and we can all jump off the cliff together like lemmings.

The end game is 'never reference biology'.

Unless it's to claim that vaginas aren't female, but brains are.

Let's just rip the elastoplast off and have done with it.

Babel that's true. They do want it to stop because it's the ultimate woman's club.

I get it Picassos, the people who drew up that legislation clearly weren't feminists!

I won't use gender like that though because it fancies up women's oppression as if its a cosmetic or lifestyle choice.

Plus it's also not true. They aren't "sex role reassigned". They aren't being treated like women at all! Women's feelings don't matter and we still do all the shit work. If they were genuinely "gender reassigned" this conversation wouldn't be happening because they'd be too busy and noone else would give a shit about their feelings or who they imagine themselves to be.

I still don't see what is wrong with trans XY. I mean that's what Caitlin Jenner is Trans XY. It's simply true. I'm a woman. Also true!

Ian Huntley is scum end off !!!

If you are going to continually reduce people to genitals and talk about who has a penis etc, this could be deemed sexual harassment !!!

Your lucky no one had actually made a complaint to the police yet.

Some of the other stuff comes under the miscommunications act

Some people are on a really sticky wicket maybe if you talked properly then people may listen???

Xx

Why IS Ian Huntley the exception to the rule? @MNHQ?

The rule being: if a man says he is a woman, then he is and we have to call him a woman and use her/she pronouns

What about the other males in prison who say they are women and may or may not be in the female prisons? What do they have to have done to exempt our obligation to call them women and use female pronouns?

Where's the line? Rape? Murder? DV? Or is it just the killing of 2 ten year old girls that nullify the right to call yourself a woman if you want and demand everyone else does too?

Well, this is all going spiffingly, no?!

TRA reduce women to genitals. Uterus-havers, vagina-havers, menstruators, gestators. I mean they might as well call us breeders and be done.

lang

LangCleg

lol

MN just put up a neon sign on their back that reads KICKME

I mean that's what Caitlin Jenner is Trans XY.

I will ignore the goady nature of your post and ask, since you are writing about a specific person, how do you know she is XY?

We can't even have 'breeders' anymore because some non-females are now identifying as breeders in the basis that "one day science might make it happen"

Gib: stop being goady. Please.

Caitlin fathered many children. Also I am Sherlock Holmes.