Mumsnet moderation of trans rights and gender critical issues

[JustineMumsnet]

Hi all,
We've given lots of thought to our moderation policies around trans rights and sex and gender issues and thought it would be a good idea to articulate where we stand in the form of a clear statement, so everyone can be clear about our moderation going forward. You can find it here. Hope it provides a helpful reference point. Thanks.

I have read some of the thread but not all.

Broadly, I am happy with what MNHQ have produced.

However

• You need to let people know when they have a lost deleted otherwise the new policy is just not fair - also agree with the PP who said 3 deletions across 3 different threads - that's fairer and mean we don't lose posters who may get riled up on a particular thread but who are generally fine.

• I also agree with the poster who said cis / TERF/ Tim / TIF should be allowed. They are useful shorthand, everyone understands them, and we can all suck up any offence caused.

• I am concerned that the new guidelines seem to ban stating the sex of named individuals?

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth Wed 13-Jun-18 13:35:30
Report me then mostdays. And stop policing my posts.

Take your own advice!

With respect, please find one which doesn't use male terms, XY or similar.

And there goes Gibberty, for the 10-mile grab.
Which is why I refuse to give an inch.

I am beginning to wonder how this is going to work. This is becoming yet another thread with multiple posts which deny the identity of trans people.

Oh, sorry, just to clarify my use of the word "they", I am referring to those who wish to silence females.

Go away and stop boring me with your tedious posts Most

It will be ok, definitely. I don't think there's a need to worry.

MNHQ, maybe you should publicise this to the whole membership.

But it might be difficult to explain the allowed and banned terminology without using the banned terminology to explain the allowed terminology.

Total bollocks. None denies the existence of transpeople.

How could we? Look there they are, all over twitter, telling women how to behave

Barack

A great explanation as always

Gibber, can you answer my question?

Trans women are not male; they are not men, nor are they all XY.

Miranda Yardley says he is a man. And male.

Who are you to tell him that he isn't?

@daimbars why do you want me and the other Trans Widows to be out for talking about my STBXH? He identifies as Trans, but also bullies me and is sexually aroused by dressing as a woman, he is aroused by the power he has to make people accommodate his sexual exhibitions, he is sexually aroused by abusing me.

He exhibits AGP, (the term you want banned) why does it offend you for me to talk about this?

I am very sorry for him, for me and my children that my experience doesn't fit your imagination of what is happening. But I'm not certain that by my not talking about it, helps anyone.

I'm battling hard to get him the mental health help he desperately needs. His presenting as Trans seems to shut down any conversation about the other issues which led up to this. I'm trying hard to change this. I'm worried that he is being forced down a path where he will desperately regret the surgery he plans, and what that will do to his already fragile mental health.

@daimbars Assigned a lot of GC posters on here have terf in their username and HQ hasn't said this isn't allowed. Terfulike, Terfragette etc

If you have problems with posters "owning" terf-as-a-slur in their usernames, and want that removed, I assume you are also going after @Truscum who has done exactly the same thing - reclaimed a (arguably far more offensive) slur and taken it as their username.

And here was I thinking Feminism was about centering females.
Women policing women is a home run for the patriarchy.

Popchyk, I missed your question. Sorry. I know nothing about Miranda Yardley so it would be inappropriate for me to comment, I tbink

Gibber, do we need a third term, do you think?

Transwomen are not women by any usual definition. You say they shouldn't be called male or men either, and I have some sympathy for that given the extremes some people will go to to remove male characteristics.

Neutral, non-derogatory terms for those we currently call transwomen and transmen seems needed.

How can I describe my identity as a lesbians in my own words in a way that seems genuine to me (as an autistic woman who struggles with linguistic sophistry) without getting banned?

Do I just avoid talking about my life?

I'm not attracted to femininity.

As a lesbian. Just the one.
Somehow my phone doesn't like the idea of lesbian in the singular.

Shots - see also: somedyke

"as an autistic woman who struggles with linguistic sophistry"

Of course that's another issue with banning people for telling truths that some consider hurtful.

None of the new guidance says we can't call men - well men.

We should stop using the term 'trans' and just call men 'men'. And women 'women'.

Problem sorted.

Haven't had time to read through, can someone tell me what we can call (TiMs) when we reject any use of (Woman) in relation to men who identify as women?
The term I am asking about is generally accepted. Transexual doesn't work as those people in general (85%) have had no operations, nor do they intend to. Plus, one can't change sex.

I don't know how to direct this at @MNHQ
so I'd be happy for clarification.

Agree with their statement though.

Thank you.

Transsexual is accurate, if bodily modification is involved. It also says neither male nor female. You assume it from context.

If TERF is used in usernames, how are new members going to understand that it is a term they shouldn't use? I had never heard the term before I joined and I confess that seeing it in usernames made me think it was acceptable and it surprised me when I first heard that it was considered unacceptable. I now understand why but I didn't have that understanding a few weeks ago and it really is going to confuse new members.

Usernames don't prove a word is inoffensive. See @PaulDacreIsACunt