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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Word of advice to MNHQ

999 replies

Hahahahaha123 · 23/08/2017 17:35

The next time you send an email about a poster to that poster by mistake. Probably best not to refer to your users as 'these people'

OP posts:
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8
endehors · 24/08/2017 11:52

Yes, that's right she was suspended. It's been mentioned on this thread many times. Still doesn't justify speaking about posters in such a manner, suspended or not. It's unprofessional.

MNHQ
JustineMumsnet · 24/08/2017 11:54

@PandorasXbox

Justine I understand why troll hunting isn't allowed but the amount of troll threads on the board seems to be huge. Many posters aren't taking such threads seriously myself included. I see certain threads and think "bollocks" and yes I report and try not to troll hunt but it's almost laughable at what's left to stand these days but we aren't allowed to say " hang on that can't be right? " because that's seen a troll hunting. Please give us some allowances for querying the content of an iffy post.

As said - the rule's there for a reason. Persistent trollhunting can ruin a forum. But of course if it's 100% obviously a troll/ returning then you'd not expect folks to say nowt (but the key is 100%). In the end though it still may be better ignore the thread than bump it to the top of active by posting?

endehors · 24/08/2017 11:54

It's hard to meet consistent anger and aggression without the occasional retort...
Is it really? Mumsnet is a business, and not a small one. I'd expect better than that.

MadMags · 24/08/2017 11:57

But that's just it @JustineMumsnet it's a general tone across many examples and I'm not the only one to notice it.

I understand that your loyalty is to your staff but you're in danger of just digging your heels in and being dismissive by just blindly saying "well send me examples, then".

Obviously, you can't take one post from one person at face value, but on this thread alone you've seen people have their grievances. Is that not example enough?!

Also, as others have said, the poster being referred to at the moment was apparently suspended, not banned. She could be lying but is that likely??

Accidents happen. Human error happens. Mistakes happen. But nobody at HQ seems to just want to hold their hands up and apologise.

It's all "well, yes BUT...".

MadMags · 24/08/2017 11:57

Is it really? Mumsnet is a business, and not a small one. I'd expect better than that.

Quite.

PandorasXbox · 24/08/2017 11:59

I do ignore them but there's a lot of posters who don't too. Some of them seem to dismiss that it might be untrue even getting caught up in the drama " thinking about you all night " type thing. But when someone sensitively suggests that some things might not add up they are called all sorts of awful names. Someone new to MN might not even know that trolling exists and give above and beyond in ways of time and emotional support only to be very hurt when they find out it's all made up.

YesEinsteinsMumDid · 24/08/2017 12:00

Justine - I think what has upset a lot of people is that the bar for evidence that a poster is a troll appears to have been moved so far up it feels that some trolls are being allowed to stomp all over mn without being challenged. I know that you probably changed the policy wrt evidence of trollery after the poster who was banned for troll turned up on the tv program and real but the policy on the whole seemed a lot fairer prior to the bar being moved. Could you have a look at how much evidence you need before removing possible troll posts again and see if some sort of middle ground can be gained? I understand that you don't want to unnecessary delete threads but it is the appearance that the trolls are getting free run of the site due to "just in case they are real" which has upset a lot of people. Especially as if you post HQ's policy on not giving more than can lose/being careful (even word for word or link) you are viewed as troll hunting.

MNHQ
JustineMumsnet · 24/08/2017 12:02

@LostGarden

OP wasnt a previously banned poster , she was suspended. A big difference.

@endehors

Yes, that's right she was suspended. It's been mentioned on this thread many times. Still doesn't justify speaking about posters in such a manner, suspended or not. It's unprofessional.

As said, given intention of banned/suspended is often to come back on MN under pseudonyms to cause trouble/slag off MN and given how we're spoken about on Reddit - I think it was pretty mild. Plus of course it was only shared in error and mistakes are pretty human.

Bitchfromhell · 24/08/2017 12:03

I'm never sure which threads to ignore. I have no troll-dar, without the troll hunters (and I get they are bad) I would have no idea which threads to invest in or not.

I understand that revenue is created from advertising by new registrations and name changes (sort of) but I do wonder if all the name changing and user1234 type names is inviting the trolls?

I also wonder if all the de-regging, re-regging, name changing that goes on is as harmful to mn as a business as it is to its users?

LostGarden · 24/08/2017 12:03

endehors my point was that op wasn't a pbp, although many posters have run with that idea trying to justify the sneering tone of the email.

MNHQ
JustineMumsnet · 24/08/2017 12:05

@YesEinsteinsMumDid

Justine - I think what has upset a lot of people is that the bar for evidence that a poster is a troll appears to have been moved so far up it feels that some trolls are being allowed to stomp all over mn without being challenged. I know that you probably changed the policy wrt evidence of trollery after the poster who was banned for troll turned up on the tv program and real but the policy on the whole seemed a lot fairer prior to the bar being moved. Could you have a look at how much evidence you need before removing possible troll posts again and see if some sort of middle ground can be gained? I understand that you don't want to unnecessary delete threads but it is the appearance that the trolls are getting free run of the site due to "just in case they are real" which has upset a lot of people. Especially as if you post HQ's policy on not giving more than can lose/being careful (even word for word or link) you are viewed as troll hunting.

Ok thanks that's useful feedback - I'm not aware of any policy change but we can certainly look at that.

IgnoreMeEveryOtherReindeerDoes · 24/08/2017 12:05

I know how about we use one of the emoji as nod to alert navie People like me of trolls, no the fucking doughnut either

meditrina · 24/08/2017 12:06

"a group of people who've contributed so much to the site over the years are so disenchanted that they collect on an alternative forum"

800+ of them?

That's a lot of posters to have banned.

Or perhaps the disenchantment with MN's current direction is not limited to a handful of troublesome posters. But instead is quite a lot of your longstanding (possibly once prolific) posters.

LostGarden · 24/08/2017 12:10

meditrina where's the like button. Spot on.

Surely that's a huge message to HQ.

MNHQ
JustineMumsnet · 24/08/2017 12:10

@endehors

It's hard to meet consistent anger and aggression without the occasional retort... Is it really? Mumsnet is a business, and not a small one. I'd expect better than that.

Oh come on - folks constantly (rightly) ask for us to engage like human beings and not like a business - then if we do we're told off for not being businesslike enough. But I'd like to see evidence of folks who've are "downright rude, sneery and passive aggressive" - an occasional comment perhaps but more than that?

BackieJerkhart · 24/08/2017 12:11

Shock at justines response on this thread!! Wow. They're really not interested.

MadMags · 24/08/2017 12:12

Wow!

TheNiffler · 24/08/2017 12:12

Oh dear. The Product is unhappy, and the Salesman can't understand why.

I think the Salesman needs to have a good long think about what's being said on Reddit. Because what's being said on there is merely what's being thought on here, difference is you can say it on Reddit.

This is all very Ratners.

The advertisers might well be your customers, but if you e got no product, or the product falls in value, you're going to lose this customers.

MadMags · 24/08/2017 12:12

meditrina spot on. You'll be ignored or brushed off, though.

AccrualIntentions · 24/08/2017 12:15

I'm new and don't know the background about banned posters/troll hunting/whatever. But it seems to me MN is a bit torn between wanting to be a community and wanting to be a professional business. You can't have it both ways. You can have a supportive community, informal moderation and accept that mistakes like this happen. Or you can be a business raking in advertising income, profiting from your users and have a professional back office/customer service set up. At the moment it all seems to be somewhere in the middle and feels uncomfortable.

I'd be (rightly) livid if I had an email indirectly slagging me off from, say, facebook. The fact I may have been a massive PITA wouldn't make that ok. Either your site users are customers/product and require coresponding professionalism, or they're valuable members of a community whose contributions are recognised and championed...and it doesn't quite feel like either of these is the case at the moment.

MNHQ
JustineMumsnet · 24/08/2017 12:17

@meditrina

"a group of people who've contributed so much to the site over the years are so disenchanted that they collect on an alternative forum"

800+ of them?

That's a lot of posters to have banned.

Or perhaps the disenchantment with MN's current direction is not limited to a handful of troublesome posters. But instead is quite a lot of your longstanding (possibly once prolific) posters.

Well we have over 10 million monthly unique users and have been going a long time and we've had some disenchanted users who've had other forums before too (moldies anyone?) and possibly there's some overlap of those.

Sometimes you also have to accept that people will disagree with how you run things and do get disenchanted.

But I agree, as said, the vitriol felt by some is far from ideal and we'd love to mend some fences if at all possible - hence this discussion.

SoupDragon · 24/08/2017 12:22

"a group of people who've contributed so much to the site over the years are so disenchanted that they collect on an alternative forum"

But not so disenchanted that they don't continue to read and post on MN.

INFP · 24/08/2017 12:24

The email sent in error was unfortunate. But it's done now and Rebecca and Justine have apologised for it.

But that is clearly not good enough for some folk who seem to be baying for blood.

MNHQ
JustineMumsnet · 24/08/2017 12:24

@AccrualIntentions

I'm new and don't know the background about banned posters/troll hunting/whatever. But it seems to me MN is a bit torn between wanting to be a community and wanting to be a professional business. You can't have it both ways. You can have a supportive community, informal moderation and accept that mistakes like this happen. Or you can be a business raking in advertising income, profiting from your users and have a professional back office/customer service set up. At the moment it all seems to be somewhere in the middle and feels uncomfortable.

I'd be (rightly) livid if I had an email indirectly slagging me off from, say, facebook. The fact I may have been a massive PITA wouldn't make that ok. Either your site users are customers/product and require coresponding professionalism, or they're valuable members of a community whose contributions are recognised and championed...and it doesn't quite feel like either of these is the case at the moment.

Ok it's a fair point but I'd like to ask what's wrong with running a good community website and making a profit? If it's a useful service, why shouldn't it be a business. Bear in mind we spent the first 8 years or so not even earning a salary. MN makes about £7m in revenues and £2m in profit. Our wage bill is £4.5m so we do like to have something over in case things go tits up to pay our people but we could make no profits and just grow grow and probably make the enterprise more valuable not less (but we'd have to be more comfortable with hiring and firing).

I'd be livid too I guess if I received that mail but mistakes do happen even in the biggest businesses (and I think you're unrealistic expecting us to respect banned posters who constantly return to flout our rules/slag us off even if they've contributed to MN previously).

Knope2020 · 24/08/2017 12:27

Oh come on
I've been here for a decade or more under various guises and I now realise we are simply click bait for mn advertisers and sponsors
Expecting anyone at mnhq to give a crap about individual posters is ridiculous
I post rarely now. Have most topics hidden tbh