Word of advice to MNHQ

[Hahahahaha123]

The next time you send an email about a poster to that poster by mistake. Probably best not to refer to your users as 'these people'

Not all of those on Reddit are PBP.

I'm over there because I do disagree with some of the recent modding on MN, and I want to discuss it with others. I'm certainly not coming back here "to give MNHQ a kicking", but if I have questions, I expect to be able to put them to Justine and others.

My burning question of the moment, Justine, concerns PMs. I was truly shocked to learn that MN Mods read PMs as part of the process of searching out trolls. I don't know of any other forum where that would happen unless there was a police investigation.

What rules do you have in place about Mods accessing PMs? Just "gosh, we only do it when absolutely necessary", which allows anything and everything to go on (as it seems it may have done here), or "agreement from another senior member of staff required along with a damn good reason"?

@MadMags, I use this site a lot and your experience of the mods is completely different to mine. I think they're restrained rather than sneery. Can you please post some examples?

@TheNiffler

Oh dear. The Product is unhappy, and the Salesman can't understand why.

I think the Salesman needs to have a good long think about what's being said on Reddit. Because what's being said on there is merely what's being thought on here, difference is you can say it on Reddit.

This is all very Ratners.

The advertisers might well be your customers, but if you e got no product, or the product falls in value, you're going to lose this customers.

Last thing I want to do is belittle the criticism and I'm quite sure there are some things we can work on and improve in the way we moderate the site - as said I'd like to mend fences and many of those criticising us I have enormous respect for. But MN has and is been growing it's user base by on average 30% per annum for the last 5 five years and our return visitors are higher than ever, so it's a jump to say people aren't buying into "the product'.

It is in the nature of communities that there is a life-cycle for some of the very invested people and that can end in disenchantment. As said that's normal and I don't think there's a lot we can do about that but I'm sad it appears to have spilled into vitriol - I don't think that's great for anyone concerned and would love to discuss how to move things on.

I think for a lot of us long time posters (8 years for me), these past few months have been an eye opener. I've had details twisted by mods, they've stated that my email asking why I'd been banned was replied to (it wasn't), I've been called a pbp (I wasn't, and never have been), it was stated that I had absurd the reporting system (I hadn't, I'd reported THREE times, and I'd responded to your initail warning email with a clear answer that I would no longer report).

Eight years of contributing, of trying to add to a community, and I get treated like that? KatherineMN was rude and obstructive. I did not deserve to be treated like that, neither does the OP of this thread. If you leave people in a position where the only way they will get an answer is to make a second account, then it's you that needs to look at your policies.

10m unique users. And how many of those are simply down to posters holding multiple accounts? I very, very much doubt there are 10 million unique posts, let alone users. If you're planning on a sale, as is rumoured, and judging from the business plan that's being followed, likely, you'd do well to keep your Product happy.

Your responses on this thread are too much for me. You've exposed Mumsnet as merely a money making exercise for you, rather than a loved Community. I'd have been proud to create this place, and I'd have done my best to keep the users happy - they are/were your lifeblood, not the advertisers. Too many bridges burned to come back now.

I'm on Reddit, please join us if you feel like me. TwasAllFields is a lovely place.

Careful soup you'll be accused of being a bum licky mnhq fan after a gold star

I don't give a shit.

Why do posters get their account suspended with no notification or explanation?

This perhaps explains why people re-reg.

It took days of repeated emails from me to MNHQ to find out why I couldn't log in for them to eventually tell me I'd been temporarily suspended.
(I didn't re-reg btw, I served my suspension like a good girl - but it was a bit of a shitty way to be dealt with tbh).

I don't know the background of all this because it occurred while I was on a social media break. So purely from this thread alone, the big issue to me is that a suspended MNer emailed the contact address, which is what I have read many times on here is the correct response?? (Aside from anything else, there are occasionally accidental suspensions/bannings)

To quote Cote who put it well:

Imho it's not the use of the phrase "these people", but the condescension in "Why waste our time replying to MNers we no longer like?...

I totally understand HQ not engaging with, say, a newly registered loser who posts something racist. But not engaging with long-term posters is counterproductive because we all find out about it when they rereg and post here on Site Stuff, or contact their MN friends on FB (I'm noticing increasing crossover) or indeed, now, take it to the subreddit.

Well it doesn't matter what it said..
...it kinda does for context nosy

Ok it's a fair point but I'd like to ask what's wrong with running a good community website and making a profit? If it's a useful service, why shouldn't it be a business

Nothing, unless it's wide open to trolls, scams and the users feel like the product rather than customer and are scared to mention this incase they get banned.

I think it's great that you want to move on but I think addressing the above with the community would be appreciated.

I'd like to ask why the original 'stuck on holiday with sciatica' hasn't been reinstated. It was taken down but not put back as far as I know and the OP was genuine.

Fuck it
I'm off to reddit

It's pretty clear that a lot of the Reddit users aren't banned and simply go there out of curiosity and/or to say things they aren't allowed to say here, or just for some general old-fashioned gossip.

The majority of us aren't vitriolic though. Just fed up with the amount of trolls being allowed to post amongst other things.

It'd be nice to be listened to regard and our views taken seriously.

I do actually think it's reasonable to expect respect from staff of a large business in their dealings with users of that service.
It does go both ways, of course and some comments about MNHQ staff in the past have been unacceptable.
In this particular case a Suspended user was contacting MNHQ as required. The staff concerned thought it was a valid action to ignore, used a derogatory term to describe the person and acted like 15 yr olds sending someone to Coventry.
You expect us to act like adults. I expect your staff to do the same.

Dont hold your breath Pandora

@Maryz

Justine, I've been a massive supporter of mnhq for over 15 years now. I'm usually the first to step in and say "hang on a sec, don't be rude to the HQers, they have a tough job". But I think in an effort to try to be fair to everyone HQ are currently (and have been for a while) taking the side of the troll vs everyone else.

I've said it many times: if a hugely sensitive thread is started, and it's felt by MNHQ that there is a 50/50 chance of it being a troll, then there are two options:

Delete - with a 50/50 chance of upsetting/hurting/disbelieving ONE genuine poster: OR
Leave - with a 50/50 chance of it being a troll, and thus upsetting/hurting 200 or more posters on the thread, and even more lurkers.

It makes me very cynical to see HQ deliberately leaving clickbait troll threads up that I know, 100% , are bollocks. And I know MNHQ know they are bollocks. And in the end they are deleted, sometimes weeks later. It brings me back to the question of whether MNHQ, as they are now, really want to get rid of trolls.

Hi Mary,
Hope all's well with you - it's a while since we chatted but suspect it was on this very topic . I can absolutely promise we wouldn't ever leave a troll post that could cause damage up for clickbait purposes.
And we'd most likely step in if we were any more than 50-50 sure it was a troll. The grey area/ trouble comes when it's potentially vulnerable person and we're less than 50% certain it's a troll/ need to do some more digging. But look, I'm not at the coalface of modding these days so it's wrong of me to talk about recent cases without discussing with the team in a bit more detail. But I promise we will have a sit down and look carefully at the evidence of how we are dealing with trolls as a team.

@Somerville

I don't know the background of all this because it occurred while I was on a social media break. So purely from this thread alone, the big issue to me is that a suspended MNer emailed the contact address, which is what I have read many times on here is the correct response?? (Aside from anything else, there are occasionally accidental suspensions/bannings)

To quote Cote who put it well:

Imho it's not the use of the phrase "these people", but the condescension in "Why waste our time replying to MNers we no longer like?...

I totally understand HQ not engaging with, say, a newly registered loser who posts something racist. But not engaging with long-term posters is counterproductive because we all find out about it when they rereg and post here on Site Stuff, or contact their MN friends on FB (I'm noticing increasing crossover) or indeed, now, take it to the subreddit.

Not engaging with a previously banned posters who comes back under a pseudonym to flout the rule she was banned for though?

Stratters is around...

I'm enjoying Reddit.

Extraordinarily, MNHQ claim to be still investigating the original Sciatica thread - despite being happy to let her run a continuation thread. Now that one really is strange.