Please can we have someone really sensible on to do a webchat about smoking in pregnancy?

[PencilsInSpace]

In light of yesterday's report by ASH on smoking in pregnancy, and in light of the current thread on smoking in pregnancy with all its usual horrible responses, which are likely to drive pregnant smokers elsewhere and lead them to conclude that MN is not a place to seek support:

Please can we have someone really sensible on to do a webchat about smoking in pregnancy?

I'm sure ASH could suggest someone who can do a webchat. The main conclusion of their report is exactly the same as the issue that comes up on any thread here about smoking in pregnancy - everybody's great at rattling off the risks. Most people are totally shit at effectively communicating with PG smokers and supporting them to quit.

10% of women are still smoking at the time of delivery. That's at least 10% of pregnant women MN is letting down, because I wouldn't come here if I needed support, would you?

This is crap isn't it? Please can we do something to change the culture a little bit? It has to be OK for women who are pregnant and who smoke to ask for support.

Hi again Pencils,

We've just been having a chat about this one at HQ. Could we ask a bit more about who it is you forsee a webchat like this 'speaking to' if you know what we mean? We just want to have a think about exactly what it is you're aiming for and see what the best way to achieve that might be.

It sounds like the issue you want to address is changing other posters' (or RL folks') attitudes towards and intolerance around pregnant women who are struggling to give up smoking, rather than simply getting someone in to talk to pregnant women about smoking in pregnancy.

Does that sound like sort of what you were thinking?

Hi Hebe, thank you.

Primarily I had in mind someone who could come on and 'speak to' pregnant women who are trying, and perhaps struggling, to quit - really practical stuff like what help is available, how to access it if you're left waiting for a referral, what works and what doesn't, what methods are safe to use in pregnancy, what to do if you relapse, coping if you also have MH issues ... and yes, coping with and overcoming stigma to ask for help in the first place. That sort of thing.

I'm kind of hoping that simply having such a discussion here - and keeping it practical, helpful and non-judgmental - will be a step towards changing the culture on MN. It would send a strong message that it's OK to ask for help and support for this, and that it's OK to ask for help and support on MN.

It would be good if whoever came on was also prepared to answer questions like 'why isn't your baby's health enough to make you quit?', 'don't you think that there SHOULD be stigma?', 'why is it acceptable for my MW to give me a CO test and treat me like a liar?' etc. Maybe also talk a bit about current research and any new approaches or initiatives that look promising.

Primarily though, a straightforward webchat of expert advice for women trying to quit in pregnancy

Hi again Pencils. Thanks for clarifying. We think we'd probably misunderstood what you were after, so that precis is really helpful. Leave it with us until the main office crew are around next week and we'll have a chat about it then. Have a good weekend!

Hi again @Pencilsinspace,

Good news! The webchat team have said yes to this and are looking into various experts. It may take a couple of months to pin someone suitable down but they're on it now and will post here again when there's any news.

Thanks again for bringing it up and chasing it.

Thank you so much!

I bet Smoking in Pregnancy Challenge Group could suggest someone.

I now believe you never had any intention of arranging this webchat.

twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1007197643557232641

Who gives a shit about the health of women and babies when there's clickbait to be had?

I'm so sad this hasn't happened yet too op. People don't talk about doing it because they're too ashamed of being judged. I think more women smoke in pregnancy than admit it to their HV.

I’ve a really good friend who used to set her alarm so she could have a fag at 4am before her husband went to work, she was so truly addicted and she didn’t want to be ‘that person’. Her daughter is now 12?and she no longer smokes after reading thevAllan Carr book, she often says she wishes she’d found it during pregnancy.
Couldn’t the NHS fund it to be given to any pregnant smokers, it has such good results!
I’ve never been a smoker but I do struggle with my alcohol intake thankfully I vomited daily during my pregnancies so couldn’t contemplate it, otherwise I think it would have been a huge struggle.

Someone at mnhq posted that message??

They didn't post the thread (I presume!) but that is the official @MumsnetTowers account tweeting it for clicks, inviting randoms from twitter to come and enjoy a rage and disgust fest against pregnant women who, for whatever complex set of reasons, have been unable to quit smoking.

I am so angry about this.

They're bending over backwards at the moment to make MN a welcoming place for arsehole transactivists from twitter - introducing convoluted new language rules and a special 3 strikes and you're out rule, just for that topic.

But when it comes to one their core demographics (probably the core demographic for new sign ups) - pregnant women - they have no shits to give.

It doesn't take a year to sort out someone to do a webchat on a basic public health topic. I don't believe they've approached anyone.

Pregnant women who smoke are far more valuable to MNHQ as salacious click-bait than they are as members looking for support. They have this in common with gender critical feminists on this site:

'Hey Twitter, come and pour scorn and hate on these disgusting pregnant smokers!'

'Hey Twitter, we have T*s! Come and goad them and don't hesitate to report them if they say the wrong words!'

I'm not daft, I understand how sites like MN work. I understand we are the product. The success of this business model relies on not making it so bleeding obvious to the product that we are the product.

@MNHQ you are part of the problem. Stigma is a huge barrier to pregnant women seeking support to quit smoking. You are actively ramping up the stigma while doing completely nothing to help.

From here: our overarching aim is not the pursuit of profits. We are independently owned and we endeavour to conduct business in an ethical manner.

You are not conducting your business in an ethical manner. You are prioritising clicks over the wellbeing and health of women and children.

High 5 to you @pencilsinspace

Very good for not letting this issue go.

I recently quit with an Allen Carr seminar and if I could send every pregnant smoker there I would.

You deserve credit for trying to reach the folk who genuinely need the help and swerving the judgemental din of folk who just don’t get it.

Well said Pencils, that twitter screenshot and thread link is horrific.

What happened to making parents lives easier MNHQ?

Good question Polter.

Surely anything that helps smoking pregnant women to ask for help to quit instead of feeling unable to admit that they smoke is a good thing?

ARE SHOUTY CAPITALS STILL JUSTIFIED?

I was told they were almost two years ago.

Nothing has happened since except for your twitter clickbait (still cross about that) and nothing has changed. There is still a steady stream of threads from pregnant women seeking support to stop smoking, only to be met with extreme abuse, rage and shaming. Here is the latest:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/pregnancy/3792951-smoking-while-pregnant

If it helped at all I could maybe see the point a bit, but it doesn't. In the 2.5 years since I started this thread the number of pregnant women who are still smokers at the time of delivery has flatlined. Some sources suggest the figure has gone up. It's almost as if shouting at smokers and shaming them for being addicts doesn't work. Who knew?

In the 2.5 years since I started this thread the women who I was initially concerned about have had their babies and now have toddlers. Maybe those children are still around second hand smoke. Maybe those women will still be smoking when their children hit adolescence and their children will have a far higher risk of becoming smokers themselves.

Are you making parents' lives easier MNHQ or are you just touting for clickbait?

Adding my support. @PencilsInSpace is on to something here.

In my local area, all the stop smoking pharmacists have left. GPs don’t want to touch women with a barge pole, and as midwives we are given all the information about why smoking is bad but very little training on supporting women to quit. Women need support and practical advice. Not shaming.

Really shocked when I saw the date this thread was started. Poor show.