Disablism

[BishopBrennansArse]

Shiny new thread.

Hopefully won't get derailed.

Mistress.

I haven't personally attached anyone, or name called. I have illustrated why a certain preemption is disablist.

If you want to bandy about the word ridiculous, another way of looking at it is that to say I am looking for trouble is ridiculous.

A good example of how w get should down, denied, dimissued when we try to educate others.

Mistress, out of you and me, who would you say knows more about disablism?

But they aren't wanting appropriate level of support for the whole class, they are wanting their child moved.

I think this is where we get into tricky territory.

We already hear pretty often from MNers who say that they're very anxious about posting on this issue (some are parents of disabled children themselves).

This is how I now feel. I have been shouted down before because I didn't think something said classed as disabilism. (I fall into the category of having complex disabilities and disabled DC)

We already hear pretty often from MNers who say that they're very anxious about posting on this issue (some are parents of disabled children themselves).

I've seen these posters (either posters with disabilities or parents of disabled children) who've commented on threads saying that they don't consider x, y, or z as disablist referred to as 'turkeys voting for Christmas'.

Why is their view invalid?

The thing is, we all have our own opinion.. its also down to how strongly we feel about a subject and if its worth tackling.

I did feel the co-worker one was disablist, because i felt it was unfair to presume he was 'taking the piss' when it was likely his life as a Parent/Carer was clearly impacting on his job, but unless you have lived that life, you wouldn't understand.

I am borderline on the young peoples housing.. i think that one is probably more a prejudice against the stereotypical teenage troublemaker rather than any kind of disability or mental health problems.

I do think the child seating one is disablist, but my view there is clouded by my own DS's disability and the fact i have been on the end of parents requesting their children being moved away!

Other people will feel and think differently, so when even WE can't agree on whether a thread is covertly disablist or not, then we are never as a forum of hundreds of minds and opinions going to reach a consensus.

What I would like to see, is the ability for us to be able to say 'this might be disablist if you think about it from X point of view' without needing to call for deletions, shutting down discussions and bombastic arguments, but also that needs to cover having freedom to say it without being abused and screamed down with the SN Brigade catcalls from other posters.

If you don't feel you can educate on WHY a thread might be disablist then perhaps we ought to come here and ask someone else to do it, who does feel up to being able to put it down in simple, polite form.

Don't rise to the trolls, don't have a row just step away and ask someone else to take over... be it someone here or MNHQ.

Candy I don't know who you are. I wasn't talking about you personally.

You have no idea who I am or what kind of disablism me or my family have had to/still go through but I won't get into a competition with you.

This is why people are afraid to post - People are spoiling for a fight.

Meh, it goes both ways. The most aggressive hounding and singling out on a thread that I have ever been on was from the mother of a child with ASD (apparently).
She didn't speak for me or my child but thought that she could.

But they aren't wanting appropriate level of support for the whole class, they are wanting their child moved.

I think this is where we get into tricky territory.

And this is where the problem lies. Even though we point it out time and time again, they cannot know which children have SNs and which don't. There is a good chance the disruptive child needs more support - either behaviourally or due to SEN or other circumstances. Fix the lack of support, fix the problem. That may involve a move, but it may not, depending on the circumstances.

Move the "disruptive child" to sit by someone else doesn't solve the problem, as then there's another parent complaining. Move the "disruptive child" to sit by themselves isn't going to solve the problem either and it effectively segregates the child, which isn't right either.

Get better support, problem solve, and work on the issues at play - much better chance of everyone being happier.

I can't see why this is such a difficult concept to grasp. (God knows it has been explained on MN threads enough over the past 5 years or more)

Just to be clear, I felt that she was being disablist and goady.

What I would like to see, is the ability for us to be able to say 'this might be disablist if you think about it from X point of view' without needing to call for deletions, shutting down discussions and bombastic arguments, but also that needs to cover having freedom to say it without being abused and screamed down with the SN Brigade catcalls from other posters.

I think that's a very sensible approach MaddyHatter

Muddy we ask MNHQ to step in. Radio silence.

Most of the goading happens at night or the weekend because the goady know full well it's a licence to get shits and giggles winding up the disabled community.

We can help to sow seeds but attitudes will not change overnight From Rebecca's post last night on the supported housing thread. I completely agree with the sentiment.

However, it doesn't feel like MNHQ are behind the sowing seeds. It feels rather like you'd rather we all just shut up and are feeding the seeds to the birds.

It is the subtlety of disabilism that is so entrenched that causes the problems people complain about.

Which seeds is MNHQ going to help nurture?

We're floundering, we're a minority and we're not all on best form through frustration.

Many are trying to educate and inform. Keep debate and conversation going. Sometimes a line gets crossed but as a minority we need the odd break the odd MNHQ backed statement.

Something along the lines 'Maybe some of the issues raised like house prices dropping is a symptom of our lack of inclusiveness for all members of our society - see our guest post here as to how some minority elements of society are being yet further marginalised'.

In itself it isn't a difficult concept Ginger but the point is that the parent isn't advocating for the class as a whole but their child.

Just as you do for yours. You aren't taking a stand against NT children if you requests your child is moved away from one that winds them up.

If someone is saying 'I want my child moved away because of this child's disability' that's awful but if they are saying 'I want them moved away because of the child's behaviour' then that's different.

Of course, I fully recognise there are disabilities that cause certain behaviours and that's where it's a murky water but on the whole, it's generally speaking better to recognise behaviour as part of an individual persons - behaviour is part of all our language, including those without disabilities.

Mistress you've just accused me of spooling for a fight again.

Were civil right campaigners spiking for a fight?
Were suffragettes spooking for a fight?

Why is it ok to make an assumption that if. Pop up and say there's a issue with this post, and it's about disability, I'm spooling for a fight?

Is this assumption made of others?

Am I saying you are spoiling for a fight? No, I am showing you reflect.

I am explaining the issue.

There is a disparity.

Stop blaming me or any other person who draws attention to disablism

You've already explained you don't see it. This because it's indirect or covert.

I can see it.

I've explained more than once now what it is.

Rather than supporting the issue, you are blaming us for looking for a fight. That's an inaccurate negative assumption in its self.

That's why we can't make progress.

We play nice. We are polite. We articulate. We explain.

Yet you believe we are spoiling for a fight, and perpetuate this negative characterisation.

How can we ever make progress?

If you keep refusing to see this point, then maybe it is you who are spoiling for a fight.

Stop. Reflect. Consider for a moment that we have a point. Maybe even challenge your own assumption. Maybe even admit you were inadvertently prejudiced.

Nothing will change until the posters do his.

We already get it.

Head - desk.

Seriously. I give up..

Candy - sorry but lol at your autocorrect

Candy why do you think my first post was aimed at you?

It wasn't.

i know, keeping me chuckling away there.. but at least she's not a Ducking Hitch right ;)

So it would be okay to say I don't want my child to sit next to Z because he uses naughty words, as use of naughty words is a behaviour, disregarding the fact that Z has tourettes?

Are you suggesting that if you complain of the behaviour and we conveniently brush disability under the carpet and not mention it that its not disabilist - because we wouldn't want to be seen as disabilist.

Your assumption that it was to you personally, your odd challenge as to who knows more about disablism; not to mention the accusation of being disablist for no reason (by the way HQ would that be considered as a PA?) make me feel as if you are spoiling for a fight.

I will say it again, I don't know who you are but you have decided I have something personally against you.

Now. I am a poster who challenge disablism and you made a generic statement that ousted who do that are looking for a fight. So hat include me.
Do you see that you are focusing on rowing and challenging and pa's but not the actual issue that this thread is about?

I agree with you Mistress,
I can't believe some of what I've read & as a disabled person & parent of a child with Autism I think I should be able to also have a voice without being compared to a Turkey voting for Christmas .

It's got the stage I don't feel comfortable voicing my opinion,disagreeing or tbh saying anything at all on recent threads due to how things go.
How does that help anyone if people are scared to voice opinions ?

I think this getting us nowhere,we aren't just disabled people,we are people first and foremost & we all have different opinions wether disabled or not but for me,my opinion is I don't agree with what's being said on these threads,it's not helping anyone,if anything it's making things worse.

I don't know what the solution is but I know it's not attacking people who have a different opinion or scapegoating whoever has had the misfortune to post the MNHQ reply.

No I am focusing on the fact this this is turning into a bloody joke.

There are parents of disabled children/disbaled people/carers who don't feel like they can post and get much needed support incase someone comes along, twists what they say and turns the thread into a bun fight.

I would have never believed that could be a possibility on MN until this month.

^I think I should be able to also have a voice without being compared to a Turkey voting for Christmas"

Did someone really say that?

I believe you of course I'm just shocked.