I Would Like To Propose A Solution To The Trans Threads Problem

[DioneTheDiabolist]

Dear MNHQ, I am pissed off with all the Trans threads. I understand that you don't wish to stifle debate/free speech and all that shit, so I propose 4 threads where all trans posts can be hidden go.

A Fuck Trans thread. For posters who hate that people are trans.
A Yay Trans thread. For posters who wish to support trans people.
A Trans Bunfight Club thread. For posters on the other two threads who want to have a bit of a ruck.
And a What MNHQ Have To Say About Trans Threads thread. For, well I think you get my drift.

All other trans posts on the site can be deleted, no other threads can be started and I can enjoy the site more.

You say preeching i say educating.

I find your opening post to this thread very preechy. I propose a new topic where all the moany we dont want anymore trans threads posters can go. That would clear things up nicely.

Preaching even.

I don't think a trans section would work in getting rid of trans debate on other boards because at the moment trans activism means the issue is in the news all the time.

Still don't understand why people can't just ignore stuff they find boring. I've never even considered that as an issue.
I can see parents of trans or gender questioning children or young adults having their own section but the issues raised by the trans lobby are so wide reaching that the topic is bound to turn up all over the place.

Re the OP., I sometimes think that there should be a separate thread to inform some posters of the difference between an objective/physical fact and an institutional fact.

And to point out to those who are so wedded to the old definitions and classifications that 'woman means a human with an XX chromosome', and who are so highly resistant to any reclassification or redefinition of what woman means by "men" (that is, transwomen), well which subset of humanity do they think created those definitions and classifications in the first place.

I find it very hard to read your posts JAPAB, are you referring to the work of Nettie Stevens?

www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/nettie-stevens-a-discoverer-of-sex-chromosomes-6580266

"old definitions and classifications that 'woman means a human with an XX chromosome'"

Old definitions, no less

I invite you to take a look at any dictionary, where you can see that the word 'woman' is STILL defined as "adult human female", which makes it the current definition.

To an extent you could use whatever word you fancy. Objectively/physically there are two sexes. Call them poley one and holey ones if you want, but there is still two sexes. That is an objective and physical fact.

The words we use to describe these two sexes are male and female, and for adult humans men and women.

You can try to change those words to mean something else (although why you would I don't know) but even if you do you still need a word that describes "those people who have XX and bear young" vs "those people who have XY and produce sperm" . It matters not who named the classifications, the fact is that the classifications are based on physical reality

Life - re "I have found myself changing my views totally after accidentally wandering into a trans thread on MN. I started doing my own research to get solid arguments against the radical feminists who seemed to be so transphobic. Quite an eye opener - I was at how legislation was now being enacted which seriously disadvantages women and girls"

This is exactly why these threads need to stay on high-traffic common areas of MN like Chat and AIBU.

Just two years ago most of us on MN were completely clueless about the transactivist agenda and the danger it poses to girls and women everywhere to just go along with the "Born in the wrong body, poor dears, what's the harm in calling them 'women'?" line.

A few MNers even wanted MNHQ to have transphobia guidelines which would have made it a deletable offence to say 'transwomen are not women' or 'transwomen have no place in female safe spaces'.

We have come a long way since then, as can be seen in the I Am Spartacus thread and its sequel in Site Stuff. All thanks to the trans threads in high-traffic topics such as Chat and AIBU, which have raised awareness and allowed women to question the dogma prevalent in most media and online fora that goes "Transwomen are women, period. If you don't agree, you're a bigot." etc.

YY to a moaning section. Because it's not just the people bored by the trans debate, it can also be a place for all the threads about MN going to the dogs, to moan about there not being a trigger warning on threads, to moan that there is a trigger warning on threads, complaining about lightheartedness...

Sorry, forgot to add a [lighthearted] tag to that post

I completely disagree about making a separate trans topic, it needs to be visible as so many posters are reading them and suddenly realising how important this is. You see posters saying this time and again. I would have said the same about a year ago when I didn't know much about it all. These threads have taught me such a lot and I know how important it it to increase awareness of the real issues for every woman in this country.

It's sad to see people with a 'I'm alright Jack' type of attitude because it doesn't directly affect them at that time. If you have a daughter then it most certainly does affect you. Especially if your daughter is gay, or keen on competitive sport, or unsure about their own identity. It affects our sons too of course, mainly if they are not conforming to the stereotypical male stereotype.

The most recent threads were triggered by events at edinburgh university, but it's likely this is being replicated at other institutions all over the country.

I can only encourage the people who are fed up to hide threads, or take the time to read them and understand why so many of us are worried about erosion of hard fought for rights of women.

I don't think it helps that anything related to this topic becomes known as 'trans threads'. Trans activists are more than capable of making their voices heard and making their own cases, and one of the things we are protesting against is women being defined and redefined by / relative to biological men.

It would probably be more useful to call them 'protecting the rights of women' threads, or the 'legislation which discriminates against women' threads, or the 'women's safety' threads. There are many related issues, and proposed changes to legislation could affect not just women's protected spaces and legal definitions, but employment law ( so relevant to MN jobs / legal boards), rights in pregnancy (pregnancy board), medical care in pregnancy, childbirth and post-partum (health boards), contraceptive issues (health board), dealing with gender pressures on children (parenting boards) , spousal relationships (relationships board), questioning the validity of arguments/ reasoning of lawmaking bodies (AIBU), appropriation or banning of language(possibly AIBU or chat, or the languages board). And this is why I disagree with Dione's proposal of creating a specific board - the possible erosion of women's rights is a many-tentacled beast, it cannot be reduced to one issue.

To add - I know we have the feminism boards, but many women on MN do not consider themselves feminists so don't use those boards. They still have the right to know about possible changes to their legal rights as women.

Spot on, Inertia. I am all in favour of the rights of transgender people but not when they impinge upon the rights of women. All the recent "trans threads" have, in fact, been examining and rejecting attacks on women's rights by TAs and their supporters. Trouble is, there's nothing much in the way of middle ground. If you don't agree that people can change sex you aren't going to accept that transgender males can become women.

With some of the legal and social changes underway the rights of women to a whole range of things including, but not limited by, safety and privacy are being trashed.

A truly depressing number of Lots of women have no time for feminism, but it's only in solidarity with other women that we can stand against the tide.

The trans activist agenda is the biggest threat to women's rights in 100 years, and every day on MN more women are becoming aware that it's going to affect them and their children, not some notional group of feminists with whom they may not identify

Inertia has it right, it's not that these threads are "just" trans threads.
So called trans issues are relevant to all women and shouldn't be hidden away.

If you are not interested, then don't open the thread or just close it if you do. Just as I do with threads about films, music or tv shows.

JAPAB, a woman actually discovered the sex chromosomes.

Of course not many know about her, being a woman and all.

Whoops, Kua beat me to it.

She's probably another gobby, uppity woman who doesn't know her place.

A Fuck Trans thread. For posters who hate that people are trans.
A Yay Trans thread. For posters who wish to support trans people.

What if you are neither?

This just sounds like a summary of the issues from your point of view, which suggests you cannot see anything from any other vantage point than that narrow one.

As usual the problem is not be the debate itself but the small minds that are the most vocal in it.

"protecting the rights of women threads"

Really? Is that why I saw several posters from the trans threads defending the burkini ban and that it was absolutely fine for women to be forcibly stripped in public? Or is it only certain women who deserve protecting?

Of those who actually posted, of course, since those events had a far more muted reaction on here, compared to what happens when a trans person writes something on twitter.

Exactly Caipora.

It's not about hating or supporting trans people- in fact, the debate isn't specific to transpeople at all. It's about women.

Trans threads are the new Cake (brass eye ref). Once you see one apparently you can't turn off.

Do MNHQ not look at Site Stuff threads any more? This has rumbled on for pages now but no comment from them

I imagine MNHQ are currently sitting with their heads in their hands in a darkened room surrounded by empty gin bottles.,.. [grin ]

I reckon HQ have hidden Site Stuff

I reckon HQ have hidden Site Stuff grin

I think you are right

I wouldn't blame them if they had TBH.