Banning the term "cis"

[OlennasWimple]

Apologies if this had already been done, but can MNHQ consider banning the term "cis", given how horrifically offensive so many users of MN find it?

I don't think I need to set out the background and reasoning to this request (but can do so if it would help!)

[WhereTheFuckIsMyFuckingCoat]

What a ridiculous thing to say! No one on this thread has said they wouldn't want to share a bus, or a doctor's waiting room, or a bloody roller coaster with a trans person, just that they don't wish to have a label forced on them by the trans community that they don't agree with, and is completely unnecessary.

A woman is a woman, an adult human female. A trans woman is a trans woman.

Don't turn this discussion into something it's not.

[noeffingidea]

violet what do you think MNHQ will do about this thread?
And could you post your source re murder rates for transwomen in the UK, as compared to number of women who are murdered? Thanks.

[LucyBabs]

No I'm very sorry but trans women are not women. It isn't physically possible to change your sex.
If a boy or man decides he identifies more with being a woman then go ahead I don't care.

My 7 year old dd asked me what it feels like being a grown up woman. I turned the question back to her and asked her what it feels like being a 7 year old girl. She said "I just feel like me Mammy"

Honestly if people could just see that wearing a dress, calling yourself Michelle and having your sexual organs altered won't make you a biological woman then maybe we wouldn't be arguing.

Do whatever the hell you want so long as you aren't hurting others. Simple but effective

[GarlicStake]

Trans people are murdered, battered in the street, called names and hounded on a daily basis.

So are women.

You'd think there might be some common ground here, but no - the vocal trans community prefers to re-label and blame women, rather than face the problem which is male violence.

Think about this, Violet - a transwoman can go back to presenting as male if they feel it necessary for their safety.

There's no closet for women.

[PortiaCastis]

I hereby declare that cis means co- op insurance society and I'm going to get some sleep.

[ParanoidGynodroid]

I don't see any hate for trans women on this thread Violet , and I personally have no objection to people changing their sex/ gender/ whatever. Nor do I object to people who were not born female calling themselves "women" if they want to.

Women here are objecting to how THEY are being classified, i.e. as a subcategory of woman, and to the erosion of the meaning of the word "woman" itself

Trans people make up a very tiny percentage of the population. Whilst we should welcome and protect them, there is no need to rewrite the dictionary for them.

[Asprilla11]

Thanks all, I just wanted to check if what I thought was right, that you are offended by being labelled for something that has never needed a label, rather than being offended by the word itself or a shortening of words.

I hope I didn't cause offence by asking, I just like to learn about things and I've learned a fair bit since joining MN less than a month a go!

[OlennasWimple]

please point out the transphobia Violet

Your post, though, reminds me of a conversation I had with a (black American) friend, who said that her grandmother continued to refer to herself as a negro long after the term fell from common parlance, whereas she had always found the term to be derogatory and found it insulting even when her grandmother used it to refer solely to herself. I think that's a better parallel than accusing women who don't want to see the term "cis" used on MN as being front-of-the-bussers

[EmpressOfTheSevenOceans]

Everyday Feminism is one of the most misogynistic websites I've ever visited, the more so because it claims otherwise.

The whole concept of gender is also misogynistic. I'm a woman because I'm biologically female. I'm also lesbian, work in IT, am childfree by choice, sometimes wear dresses and like baking occasionally. Does that mean some bits of me are "cis" and not others? Fuck that. I have a sex and a personality. Not a "gender".

Incidentally, the list of trans, black and disabled as subcategories of women is both racist and disablist and completely ignores the point that black and disabled women have vaginas.

[GarlicStake]

It can be quite the learning curve on here, Asprilla

[ErrolTheDragon]

Yes, the trans community needs protection and support. It is ill served by a few trans activists who put women's rights to the back of the queue, and stir up unnecessary animosity by silly redefinitions of words and unwanted labelling.

[Somerville]

Asprilla In my case, the former rather than the latter. I'm a Classicist by training so always enjoy the accusation being levelled that anyone who objects to being called cis doesn't properly understand that it's a Latin word, blah blah blah

And it goes far, far beyond just being called something we dislike. I don't know if you RTWT, but I explained earlier that in real life being called a cis-woman in a so-called progressive workspace quickly led to not being able to mention pregnancy, breastfeeding or periods without being accused of being transphobic. It was especially hard as I was breastfeeding at the time, so had to 'ahem excuse myself' rather than 'go to express'.

Don't even get me fucking started on the person with a penis walking in on me hand expressing in the female toilet and later describing the scene as wank fodder to male colleagues in the pub. They are good 'ins and called the person out on it - apparently this was a lesbian reaction to my milk-gushing breasts, and the wanking was a female orgasm from the persons female penis.

[Liz09]

I've only ever seen the word cis used in the context of denigrating said "cis" people. It's only ever used when it serves an agenda, IME. That's why I can't stand it. It's the same reason I can't stand the terms privileged, able-bodied, demisexual/pansexual/sapiosexual etc. They only ever seem to be used by people who vehemently despise anything that is NOT a deviation from the norm (even though they constantly crap on about wanting to bridge the gap and wanting equality).

[Bogeyface]

Funny how men becoming women meant that we get pushed even further down the pecking order isnt it?

[EttaJ]

I'm a woman, don't use a ridiculous made up name to describe me
I agree Maryz

I dislike being given a label that is not required and I do not accept. I have been a woman all my adult life, and have no reason to be labelled as anything else That exactly fuckingcoat that exactly! What a load of self obsessive, navel gazing old shit.

[EmpressOfTheSevenOceans]

What Maryz said.

[Asprilla11]

And it goes far, far beyond just being called something we dislike. I don't know if you RTWT, but I explained earlier that in real life being called a cis-woman in a so-called progressive workspace quickly led to not being able to mention pregnancy, breastfeeding or periods without being accused of being transphobic. It was especially hard as I was breastfeeding at the time, so had to 'ahem excuse myself' rather than 'go to express'.

Don't even get me fucking started on the person with a penis walking in on me hand expressing in the female toilet and later describing the scene as wank fodder to male colleagues in the pub. They are good 'ins and called the person out on it - apparently this was a lesbian reaction to my milk-gushing breasts, and the wanking was a female orgasm from the persons female penis.

Bloody hell that's crazy! I worked in the Civil Service for 15 years and we had lots of progressive rules, policies and protections in place so nobody is discriminated against, which is very good, but I can't imagine even there they would ever accept the trans women excuse for what was said!

[venusinscorpio]

I think you've got to the heart of the matter, Etta. It's narcissism. No one else's feelings matter, everyone has to validate your personal view of yourself. Or they're a nasty old bigot on the wrong side of history.

[merrymouse]

I object to the term 'cis' because it presupposes that there is thing called gender that you have to identify with one way or the other.

[VestalVirgin]

In what way is it used as an insult? (Genuine question - never heard of cis women until today)

Okay, I'll assume you are genuine, so, here's an explanation:

By the very definition provided by trans people, "cis" means "this person identifies with the gender she was assigned at birth".

Since the female gender role is an instrument of oppression, this is a very, very, very nasty insult. It basically implies that women who don't transition are totes okay with being oppressed under patriarchy. (Some trans might deny that this oppression exists, but that doesn't change the facts.)

[GarlicStake]

Euww, Somerville, that's horrible!

[EttaJ]

Somerville that's horrific! If it was a man he would surely be sacked so any wasn't that person? Ugh . Revolting from anyone, why should they get away with it . Some people just want the best of both worlds and fuck what is right or wrong as long as they're being pandered to. That person was clearly a twat. A sock one at that .