Banning the term "cis"

[OlennasWimple]

Apologies if this had already been done, but can MNHQ consider banning the term "cis", given how horrifically offensive so many users of MN find it?

I don't think I need to set out the background and reasoning to this request (but can do so if it would help!)

Garlic This might be going off of a tangent, but I believe religion is to blame a lot. It teaches women to be submissive. In other cultures women and men are a lot more equal

Which cultures? For all I know, those cultures were women were not expected to be submissive were mostly killed off by patriarchal cultures and what remains of them are some people who live on reservations and may or may not continue the culture of their ancestors.

and have completely different gender roles.

Different from each other, or from what they are here?

You know, there's this really great Sci-Fi series by Ann Leckie, starting with Anciliary Justice and the culture that rules all the universe there, the Radch, don't have any gender. At all. They just don't have it.

But you can't have been referring to that, since it is Sci Fi.

TBH, it's not about 'passing' for me. It's about socialised behaviours and physical characteristics.

Many of my trans friends don't 'pass'. They don't give a fuck, they just do what suits them.

If we reduce "being a woman" to "looking the popular idea of women", we're completely buggered. Loads of male men can do it, if they're good-looking. Loads of female women can't.

• "looking like the popular idea of women"

Garlic At least the Abrahamic religions, dunno about anyone.

Blister I don't believe it's transphobic, but if it genuinely is, I would avoid it, obs. But I mean, people have different bits, male and female (and intersex) and that's just that.

Vestal Ohh, I don't know the names, but yes, they have mainly been wiped out by patriachal cultures, and religious people. I learned about a culture in anthropology, where there were tree people and non-tree people, and people just did whatever they were better at, didn't matter the sex. I'm sure there are plenty of examples. Both different from what we have here, and from each other, I'm sure.

I hate "cis". I am a woman. Trans women are a subset of men, not a subset of women. I'm an adult human female. Woman. Cis my arse.

what does "pass" mean?

Passing means looking convincingly "like a woman". Whatever that means - the acid test seems to be that you can go about your day without anyone making you want to kill yourself by suspecting you're a man.

I've failed to 'pass' many times in my life. Apparently, the fact that this just amuses me is a symptom of cis privilege. Go figure.

Ohh, I don't know the names, but yes, they have mainly been wiped out by patriachal cultures, and religious people.

Pretty sure they had religions, too. Just, you know, not patriarchal ones. I don't think malecentric monotheism is the root of the problem, it's one of the symptoms. Symptoms can also be harmful (that's why some illnesses/poisonings are treated by treating the symptoms), but they're not the root of the problem.

What do you think the root is Vestal?

Sorena here is a link explaining how some (only some) trans people have expressed the view that designating genitalia 'male' and 'female' is transphobic. I beg you though, engage your critical faculties and don't start believing that describing a penis as a male sex organ is transphobic
transgenderreality.com/2015/11/20/its-a-girls-dick/

LadyStark Sounds awfully confusing from a medical point of view. I mean, if you are a woman, then you have a woman's body, and if you are a man, then you have a man's body. But I mean, in biology, not just humans, there are male and female reproductive organs, and if we call all women's bodies female sexed, then you would need another word to describe a female body, uterus, vulva, chromosomes etc etc. So I don't really see how that solves the problem, but obviously respect individual people's way of viewing their gender/sex, but as a general thing, I don't believe that solves anything.

Well I agree with you. But by this if you are a woman, then you have a woman's body, and if you are a man, then you have a man's body do you mean that trans men have a man's body because they identify as a man? Even if they have breasts and a vulva and uterus?

if you are a woman, then you have a woman's body, and if you are a man, then you have a man's body

Quote fail

LadyStark Imo yes. A transman is a man, so he has a man's body. But his biological sex is female.

Maryz They might not be able to change the biological sex, but they will be able to change some of the things associated with their biological sex, like voice, periods, fat distribution, body hair. Which is fair enough.

Sorena I've got a bridge to sell you. Some unicorn milk too.

What do you think the root is Vestal?

My theory is that it is men's womb envy.

Patriarchy must have started around somewhen when men decided that they should have a right to control women's reproduction.

I mean, you could say they just started to rape because it felt good to them, some mammal males do, but some random rapists don't make a patriarchy.
Besides, in some patriarchal societies the rape of male children is so widespread that one really cannot say the men rape women because they like raping. They rape women for reproduction and children for "fun".

And because no woman in her right mind would want to be pregnant all the time, patriarchal societies soon became more numerous than equal ones, and spread patriarchy around like a plague. (There's theories that say that many children are more useful in agricultural societies than in hunter and gatherer ones, but I don't think any sane women wants 20 children, unless perhaps she has abnormally easy pregnancies and births)

Patriarchy means "rule of the fathers". Well, in an equal society, there is no such status as "father". There's the man who contributed his sperm, and no one except perhaps the mother knows who that is. And then there might be a man who helps raise the children, but has no claim on them.
A father, who legally owns children - that happens only in patriarchy. And that's why I think men created patriarchy specifically for that purpose.

EttaJ Yes please! Unicorn milk is always appreciated!

Sorena - it might be possible to change secondary characteristics such as facial and body hair and breadt tissue. It might in time be possible to re-shape body parts such as pelvic bones and Adam's apples I suppose.

But a mtt will still always be more susceptible to certain illnesses such as prostate cancer, while a ftt will be at higher risk of osteoarthritis because of their innate genetic make up

How about heart attacks - with different symptoms for males and females? 'Passing' Mtt goes to hospital with 'male' symptoms, yet is (as far as anyone can tell without going through all the history) female in the eyes of the Doctor. Sent home with the patronising pat on the head that women get in a&e, then keels over and dies.

'Passing' Mtt goes to hospital with 'male' symptoms, yet is (as far as anyone can tell without going through all the history) female in the eyes of the Doctor. Sent home with the patronising pat on the head that women get in a&e, then keels over and dies.

Unlikely. Male bodies and therefore male symptoms are treated as the default by medicine. Passing MTT would probably diagnosed correctly, since for a long time, the medical establishment didn't even know about the symptoms of a heart attack in women and just assumed it must be the same as in males.

Ah yes, good point.

Of course I agree with your point that medical risks are bound to be assessed incorrectly if someone doesn't tell medical professionals about their actual sex and hormone treatment and surgery. (Testosterone causes a lot of problems for transmen, some of which are probably not even known to medicine right now. Higher risk of heart attacks is one, and I have no idea what the symptoms would be, if testosterone would change them, and if they would be recognizable.)

Sorenaj

Are you going with the thinking that as gender is feeling/thinking and therefore true - it is above biology in what being a woman or man means? So if your gender is woman then your body is that of a women whether you have a penis or vagina - it doesn't matter? So a penis can be female?

I'm a bit confused with all this, admittedly and have a heavy cold.