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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Banning the term "cis"

979 replies

OlennasWimple · 06/07/2016 23:36

Apologies if this had already been done, but can MNHQ consider banning the term "cis", given how horrifically offensive so many users of MN find it?

I don't think I need to set out the background and reasoning to this request (but can do so if it would help!)

OP posts:
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PaulDacresMicroPenis · 07/07/2016 17:39

Has anybody else had a look at the government response to Maria Miller's Trans Equality Report? I've only had time for a quick scan but "gender dysphoria is not a mental illness" jumped out at me, also the
ambivalent response to allowing puberty blockers for Gillick competent children makes me feel nervous.
[Link to report here

Just5minswithDacre · 07/07/2016 17:40

(and tbh I'm avoiding these threads now because I'm apoplectic with rage about the whole Olympics thing

Get your gin stocks topped up Maryz. It's all about to get very public.

PaulDacresMicroPenis · 07/07/2016 17:42

Oops link

GarlicStake · 07/07/2016 17:42

It really isn't transphobic to accept that transwomen are biologically, chemically & structurally male.

It's just a way of perceiving things.

When my brother looks at me, he sees a person. He knows my history, my sex and all that. But my sex is irrelevant to him - I happen to know this, because he likes to explain he "doesn't think of me as a woman." That's okay as it goes: our relationship's based on shared history, not physical sex.

When a man pinched my bum recently, it was because he sees me only as a woman. My personality and gender expression were of no interest to him. I wasn't performing femininity at the time; he merely observed my sex and conducted a gendered behaviour.

When the women in my support group talk to me, it's on the basis of my sex plus my personality.

... ...

It's similar when various people think of a transwoman.
Some will react only to her personality, with no interest in her sex or gender.
Some will react only to her physical sex or her perceived gender.
Some will respond to the entire balance of her sex and personality.

None of them are wrong. (Obviously the bum-pincher was wrong, it was just the most obtrusive example I had.)
My point is that you can't tell people how to think or feel. That way madness lies.
Just accept that people view things differently and try to understand.
Stop censoring other people. Stop enforcing unwanted labels on folk. Don't accept unwanted labels for yourself.

BengalCatMum · 07/07/2016 17:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lljkk · 07/07/2016 17:47

I guess what bothers me is this...

The black power movement didn't (did they?) demand removing the word 'white'. They preferred "black" instead of Negro & later African-American was even better. It was all about promoting themselves , not putting down the other guys.

Or gay folk said they wanted to be gay-lesbian-bi; they didn't choose a new word for heterosexuals (did they)? Straight is slang, but I don't remember it shoved down my throat as only appropriate word to use.

I suppose the social model of disability redefines what it is to be able-bodied... does the SM impose new words for being not-disabled?

So why do some trans people have to redefine what it is to NOT be trans? That's weird (isn't it?)

milkbottle · 07/07/2016 17:53

I honestly can't believe how over the top you have all taken this term. It's just a useful term to use in conversation to differenciate between trans and non-trans people. Honestly, the transphobia on this forum is shocking, and I simply don't understand why it is not taken as seriously as things like ageism, which is apparently the world's worst crime.

EmpressOfTheSevenOceans · 07/07/2016 17:54

Sorena, can you explain how women are "all the same inside"?

You're obviously not talking about biology so are you implying that all women have similar brains? Can you define woman without making any reference to gender stereotypes?

I know you might say you don't know because you don't identify as a woman. But if that's the case then I would say that equally, you aren't qualified to state that all women are internally the same.

lljkk · 07/07/2016 17:57

Actually I think MN is OTT on several 'isms, and that includes ageism (outing myself as an Old Bint now).

If CIS is just a way to distinguish trans from not trans, then why not say "biologically female" or even 'bio-female' for short. Why go for jargon, instead?

PortiaCastis · 07/07/2016 17:57

Nobody is being transphobic, they just don't want to be called cis which is understandable

GarlicStake · 07/07/2016 17:58

So why do some trans people have to redefine what it is to NOT be trans? That's weird (isn't it?)

Yes, I do find it weird. And intrusive.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 07/07/2016 17:59

Why aren't people getting that if someone calls you 'cis-women';
you just go sorry I am non-binary

I think they're not getting it because it's bollocks.

Blistory · 07/07/2016 18:05

Transphobia ? Given that there is no accepted definition of what trans is, how on earth can the phrase transphobia have meaning ?

BengalCatMum · 07/07/2016 18:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FloraFox · 07/07/2016 18:07

Transwomen deals with those issues too, so yeah, women. Whatever bits you've got in your pants doesn't matter

Number of MTTs aborted before birth or killed shortly after for being MTT? Number of MTTs forced to birth children? None of the issues I listed are relevant to MTTs but, guess what? They all affect FTTs who are also in the group of people born with female reproductive organs so by your definition, Soren would not be included but people born with male reproductive organs would be included. Are you saying there should be no name for the group of people born with female reproductive organs?

merrymouse · 07/07/2016 18:07

milkbottle, 'cis' is offensive because of the assumptions that the term makes about gender. Gender stereotypes have been and still are very harmful to women, yet increasingly legislation is defining women according to a vague, subjective idea of gender. However I suspect having read all these threads properly you already know that, so it shouldn't be too tricky to understand why 'cis' is offensive.

BengalCatMum · 07/07/2016 18:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BertrandRussell · 07/07/2016 18:08

"Honestly, the transphobia on this forum is shocking"

Just to be clear, are you saying that not wanting to be described as a "cis-woman" is in iitself enough to be called transphobic?" I would really like a yes or no answer to this, please.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 07/07/2016 18:10

Yes, Bengal, but there are fundamental problems with (2), as discussed on this thread.

We don't need cis to say we are women. Being a woman, where relevant, is distinction enough. I don't need to declare to everyone how I feel about the construct of gender, and saying I am or am not 'non binary' just entrenches the idea further that not buying into gender is something special people with a special name do, rather than something we can and should all do.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 07/07/2016 18:12

I am not doing nonsense identity politics and calling myself 'non binary'. That just gives the whole thing a legitimacy I don't think it should have.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 07/07/2016 18:14

'Sorry, I am not a cis woman, I am non-binary' = that's a valid thing to call someone but you've made a mistake in applying it to me personally. There are cis women, but I have a different label.

I would rather say 'no I'm not a 'cis woman' and neither is anyone else because it's meaningless tosh.

Blistory · 07/07/2016 18:14

I think most women are upset because they were quite happy to accept transwomen and to support the cause until they realised that some transwomen didn't just want to be accepted but to redefine what it is to be a woman.

Calling oneself non binary is buying into the whole crappy game of self identity and conflating it with an importance it just doesn't have.

EttaJ · 07/07/2016 18:19

NeedaClever me too or other peoples heads . It's such ridiculous nonsense that my DH thinks it's a joke not a real "thing"

PhilPhil exactly this and kittylaroux YES! Excellent example. Posie I think you're spot on with everything too.

I'm not phobic about anything but a man in a dress is just that. A man in a bloody dress. He is not a trans woman. I can't actually believe all this fucking nonsense. What has happened to society that people think they can just make up new words for basics such as man and woman and hope to get away with it?

By all means if you were born a sex that you feel is wrong then have a sex change . Men wearing make up,frocks and high heels means nothing other than that. Take it off you're still a man underneath.

It's so bloody basic it baffles me that it's gone this far. As for sorena I find YOU very draining indeed.

Blistory · 07/07/2016 18:19

Bert,

As I understand it, not wanting to be called 'cis-woman' is considered to be a trait of cis privilege but is not, in itself, transphobic. Depending of course on which vocal transactivists are online on any given day redefining homophobia and sexism as transphobia.

EttaJ · 07/07/2016 18:20

seekevery blistory nodding here. Yes. More common sense ,thank goodness!

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