What are your top tips for dads going on paternity leave?

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

As you may know, the government recently announced plans for shaking up parental leave, with a new system of shared parental leave coming into force for those whose babies are born after April 2015. You can find more details about that here and here.

In the light of this, the Department for Business, Industry and Skills are looking to compile information for fathers who take paternity leave.

How do you approach being at home on your own with an infant, or with a baby and older siblings? Does it affect your sense of self, your approach to your career? How do you approach things with your employer, and - if you intend to go back to work - what things can you do (or ask for) that help to make sure that your career doesn't stall or suffer? What support do you need from the other people in your life, and what arrangements can you make (long term and day-to-day) that mean you get the most out of the time? And just how do you identify the best baby-and-toddler groups?

Thanks
MNHQ

Avocadotoast.... Not off topic at all! When are you due? We have exactly the same problem with oh's package potentially more than the statutory and the information is still all about additional paternity, not shared parental leave. We don't need to inform them Til April, I think, by which time they should have got their arse in gear. Anybody know what kind of SPL package a company rated 'silver' by investors in people might be going to offer? Mirror of maternity? We are just guessing at this point.

I'm due middle of May, going on leave at end of April. I've just left it quite open for now; I've told work I want to take shared leave but not given definite dates. As far as I know it's an 8 week notice period so still time to decide.

My partner and I are planning to share parental leave - I'll be having about six months (I'm the higher earner and to be totally honest, should have said I'd take less but I'll never the chance to be a SAHM to my baby again) and he's taking two months. So reading this with interest!

There are some good just dad's groups like 'dads rock' - a charity - I am not saying dads should be excluded from other toddler groups though! But things like dads rock can be quite confidence building I think - they seem to be c welcoming and certainly my DH said he found it muh easier to start with those than usual toddler groups where he felt quite self conscious at first and kept thinking all the mums must be more expert than him! (they weren't of course. He is great at childcare and a fantastically caring chap. Still felt uncomfortable in big group of women plus babies whom he didn't know.)

Mother doesn't always know best - if this is your first child, she hasn't done it before either. Get stuck in and muddle through together. If your child will take a bottle, you can (and should) take over some feeds - it's an amazing and intimate experience. take baby out by yourself as soon as you can. The first time is always daunting - it doesn't get less daunting if you leave it longer.
sleep deprivation is not a competition - you will both be exhausted and will both handle it differently. Either one of you may need more sleep than the other, or may struggle to get to switch off and sleep. Figure this out between you as best you can.
Unless you are lucky enough to be a SAHP you have precious little time at home with your baby - make every second count.

My husband is a sahd and goes to all the baby toddler groups. He has developed a large social circle of female friends and never feels excluded.

@BIWI

Whilst I think it's fantastic that men are being encouraged and given the time to take paternity leave - I really, really, really, genuinely and honestly do - I am very, very, very genuinely and honestly irritated by this:

Does it affect your sense of self, your approach to your career? How do you approach things with your employer, and - if you intend to go back to work - what things can you do (or ask for) that help to make sure that your career doesn't stall or suffer? What support do you need from the other people in your life, and what arrangements can you make (long term and day-to-day) that mean you get the most out of the time?

I wonder how much hand-wringing the Department for Business, Industry and Skills does about women who leave their jobs to go on maternity leave?

This was entirely our wording, based on (perhaps overly personal!) impressions of what maternity leave can mean for some women (ie there's some evidence that women's careers can suffer - the 'motherhood penalty'), and thus what it might mean for men considering taking extended paternity leave. Nothing to do with BIS at all. Sorry for any confusion/annoyance

hello ... firstly I'd say enjoy the paternity leave with the baby & other children = it's something to be enjoyed, it wasn't around when I had my son & It'd have been good to have ... I can imagine my then husband would definitely not have gone to anything like a parent & baby group ... remember you don't have to go all 'girlie' & I mean that in the sense of you will remain a dad/man ... I hope what I've written makes sense :)

RowmanMumsnet They say that confession is good for the soul

Interesting to read many of the comments here. I'm currently in the middle of my period of Additional Paternity Leave and can't recommend it highly enough. Yes, it's got its challenges and yes, many of the local services for new parents are geared towards women. However, I don't really find that too much of a problem. It makes sense given how slow this country has been with encouraging fathers to share in parenting - it is really interesting to see how it is in places like Holland and Scandinavia - and I've found lots of other mums and dads very supportive, in contrast to MoreBeta, above.

The main benefit I've found - beyond the obvious one of spending great time with your child - is a much better understanding of how wonderful my wife was in the first six months of maternity leave. You read quite a lot about how the first year of parenting puts loads of strain on a couple's relationship. Having a shared understanding of what it's like to look after an infant full-time can only help to strengthen your relationship.

In case anyone's interested, I've been blogging about the experience here:
www.fiftyeightdays.wordpress.com

oh and worth noting that I'm lucky to have a supportive employer with a pretty decent families policy (though note that it was still only statutory pay - I'm not sure things will equalise too rapidly until it is less financially crippling for dads to take APL. We've been able to manage my 8 weeks through some careful budgeting, but it is pretty tight...

I could go on about this topic for ages as DH and I split the leave for DS1, but wrote a blog entry on it back in April - about the pros and cons - which is probably more eloquent tired

On balance it was great, but as the mother I really did have to let go of the management of things which I found hard to get used to at first!

modernmothercraft.blogspot.co.nz/2014/04/reflections-on-when-my-husband-was-stay.html

Ha! (Ironic hollow laughter) DH is a self employed farmer. We had DTs and were all in hosp for 10 days. I think he has one whole day off work. (Inc weekends). But too be fair, he did ALL of these night feeds with me. We FF.

Could the Department for Business, Industry and Skills not just take the reams of information already created for women about to do exactly the same thing (ie take an extended period of time off to look after a baby), change "mother" to "parent" and remove anything overtly biological such as breastfeeding references? Because let's face it, small babies aren't particularly complex to look after (just bloody tiring) and issues such as "how will I re-enter the workplace later" aren't gender specific.

Or are fathers really really different from mothers in terms of how they parent and need special blokey help written in special blokey language?

DH didn't take APL (despite being able to when DS was born, instead he negotiated an increase to 5 days working instead of his standard 4). However he has worked part time since i returned to work after DD1 was born. He's not had a problem with parent groups but has gone to classes rather than 'Bumps and babies' type things, I did the same thing TBH, I think they are easier because there's less emphasis on chatting, and he's friends with a SAHD so they went to a lot of the same classes so he didn't need to worry about fitting in too much. I keep telling him he's doing a great service to the entire community going to those groups, every child who went to one of them and was used to seeing DH and his mate will be less likely to think childcare is 'women's work'.

I don't have a problem with him having female friends, and he gets on well with most of my 'mummy' friends and their DH's, he's a fairly non-threatening male which I think helps (short, skinny and boyish geek). I thought play dates might be a problem now the DDs are at school but he seems to be able to invite the DDs friends round no problem, in fact he hosts more playdates than I do these days because DD1 has swimming on my day at home.

As far as his career goes working part time hasn't made a massive difference, but he's very highly trained and experienced but not chasing a really high flying job (he's a higher rate tax payer but works normal hours). He's been with the same public sector employer since before DD1 was born and they've accommodated him swapping between 4 and 5 days (he put his hours up when I was on ML). He's about to start a new job so it'll be interesting to see how that compares. In my experience once there's a critical mass of PTers it becomes less of an issue, I work in the pharms industry and lots of psrents (mothers and fathers) work part time, can't remember when I was last on a project where there were no PTers.

SoMuch If a bit of blokey language will get a few of my gender to take their pat leave and use it properly it's to the good. It's a pity that it is necessary - but today's fathers are products of the environment in which looking after babies was women's work.

I was allowed by family friends to do the ff, changing, bathing, and the like with their LO when I was 17 - and surprised myself when I found that I could do it perfectly well and in fact enjoyed it. Those very forward-minded people (for their time, which was 1969) gave me an insight which not all first-time fathers have - especially in these days of smaller families where they are less likely to have looked after younger siblings. So yes, it does make sense to use blokey language to persuade them that they can and should do everything except give birth and bf.

I disagree Andrew. I think that writing "special men's information" on this subject patronises men and assumes that they want no part in their children's lives unless they're somehow cajoled into it. Which I don't believe to be true.

DH, for example, is the product of a SAHM who dabbled a bit supporting his DF's business but to all intents and purposes was very much a classic 1970s/1980s housewife with a husband who did as little as was usual in that era. And DH is now a SAHD to our DD, which he loves. He didn't need someone to say "it's ok, your willy won't fall off if you get involved in the childcare". And he didn't do it grudgingly, because he lost his job or something - it was a joint decision.

He is also perfectly happily finding his way because as I said there is already loads of information out there for women-as-primary-caregiver, men can read it too without anything bad happening to anyone. I just have to put up with the occasional rant about how it always refers to "mums" instead of "parents", so the faster they change that the better in my view!

Special advice for men, when it's not necessary, also further divides men and women in parenting. Actually once breastfeeding is over there shouldn't be any difference. Creating difference just encourages people to see some aspects of parenting as "male" and some as "female", which is unhelpful since it perpetuates the view you mentioned that childrearing is women's work.

SoMuch, couldn't agree with you more. Well said.

You know what SoMuch and avocadotoast my take on this is probably out of date. DS is 30 and the world has changed. I bow to your more recent experience.

But there is one bit of my own experience which I think is still valid. If you've got a baby and either of you has a DB with no children living nearby - try to get them involved. Don't just let them coo when they visit, get them changing/bathing/ff if appropriate. Do your future SILs a favour. DW's brothers both learnt the art on my DS - who did not mind pass-the-parcel, I know some babies do, and a few years down the line their wives and children got the benefit. I cherish memories of one of them, in particular, nervously bathing his sister's slithery PFB and finding he could do it!

This is a nice article worth reading for new dads.

Sorry I can't make the link live as I'm on the app.

www.telegraph.co.uk/men/relationships/fatherhood/11372657/Eight-things-that-go-through-your-mind-when-your-partner-gives-birth.html

If the housework is split by chore pre baby (eg dh does laundry, dw does hoovering etc) learn to use any equipment you are unfamiliar with prior to birth as if the mum is cluster feeding and you need to do a chore she won't be able to show you.
Learned from experience. .. dh and I always split the chores but he had to get the manual out for the dishwasher when I was feed/sleep/change/repeat and needed clean mugs ASAP!

CuttedUpPear - good article, very accurate.

The weird part for me with DS1 was that they actually let two people go home with absolutely no idea what they are doing with a real live baby to look after.

I mean that's just downright irresponsible!

My top tips for a father taking paternity leave are quite simple

1. you are not on holiday - its not about beer and football
2. look after yourself and your lady love - this means healthy food and as much sleep as possible
3. You may feel highly protective of both lady love and new child. Don't lose your cool and shout, at anyone.

if the baby cries and will not shut up, for god's sake don't shake him/her. give hime/her back to mum or put baby in the cot and walk out the room.

never ever tell your wife that you had a horrible time in pregnancy because she was so sick. it is pretty much guaranteed that it was not a barrel of laughs for her either and this will not be appreciated.

change nappies, do some of the walkingup and down the landing, burping, rocking, you will forge a deep relationship with your child doing this.

nappies need to be changed when they are wet not just pooy. if it is hanging between their legs down to their nknees it needs changing.

if the midwife says make your wife/partner lunch before you go to work because she is still bleeding after post partum haemorrhage then fucking well make your wife lunch. do not leave the kitchen in such a mess that the wife has to tidy up before she can eatin the twenty minute the baby is actually asleep and not crying.

do not sulk because your partner can not eat the food you have brought as she is in the middle of feeding a baby.

when you change a boys nappy, be ready to put something on the boys willy to soak up the inevitable fountain. do not let the poor child wee on it's own head. you on the other hand deserve to be weed on at some point if not following this simple step.

For the last two posters - this isn't really about the current paternity leave set up, it's about split parental leave where both parents have a period of sole care.