What are your top tips for dads going on paternity leave?

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

As you may know, the government recently announced plans for shaking up parental leave, with a new system of shared parental leave coming into force for those whose babies are born after April 2015. You can find more details about that here and here.

In the light of this, the Department for Business, Industry and Skills are looking to compile information for fathers who take paternity leave.

How do you approach being at home on your own with an infant, or with a baby and older siblings? Does it affect your sense of self, your approach to your career? How do you approach things with your employer, and - if you intend to go back to work - what things can you do (or ask for) that help to make sure that your career doesn't stall or suffer? What support do you need from the other people in your life, and what arrangements can you make (long term and day-to-day) that mean you get the most out of the time? And just how do you identify the best baby-and-toddler groups?

Thanks
MNHQ

I'm not sure I can suggest anything helpful but I do think it is difficult for dads to go to baby groups. All the ones I go to are very female with a lot of talk of birth stories, breastfeeding, cracked nipples etc. DH came with me once to playgroup and he stuck out like a sore thumb. Maybe there is a need for some groups aimed at dads as they will need that support network and social time on paternity leave just as much as we do.

A tip I gave to my friend was to know exactly what you are entitled to and don't feel guilty about taking time off.

He only took a few days off because this is what other male colleagues had done. After he'd checked facts and spoken to boss he booked another 2 weeks off.

It meant they all could have some lovely family time together (and share the burden of night feeds and sleep deprivation) He still felt guilty about leaving work though!

Just reading through the info on the first link.... wanted to check this... "Once you have told your employer that you are pregnant and given them notice of the date you intend to start your maternity leave, a return date should be set. This should be given, by the employer , in writing within 28 days. If you wish to change the date of your return at any point, you will need to give your employer at least eight weeks notice."

Is it really the employer who decides when you go back to work? Or should that be employee instead?

I recommend looking at the gov.uk site for being able to understand your eligibility... The acas pages get you so confused about who it's talking about, the mother or the mothers partner!

The rules are changing, and it's so hard to follow them. It's good that the gov. Uk site makes it understandable! But it's pretty complicated; I think we need paid time at work to read the rules and understand them!

1. Take as much of the work as you can. If ff - for whatever reason - take all the night feeds so your DW/DP can sleep. You will find the process of turning a hungry, wet squealer into a well-fed, dry, contented sleeper profoundly satisfying.

1. Forget work. Turn off your office mobile and laptop and leave them off. You have another job to do. If you really need to be in contact fix a short and definite time of the day when they can ring you.

1. ENJOY! Especially if it's the first there will never be an experience like it. Be glad that unlike earlier generations, probably unlike your own DF, you will have a good chance to get to know your baby.

Guy - I think it's bad wording. AFAIK the employer's acknowledgement is meant to state either the date you've said you are coming back, or work out the latest date you are entitled to come back (i.e. assume you will take the full leave if you've said nothing) and notify you of that.

What andrewofgg says - get stuck in, expressed feeds and or bottle allows the mum to take a rest as she needs as much as she can get.

Also use it to trial how your going to deal once you go back to work such that the mother is getting some rest.

Make dinners!

I have to say that I don't think toddler groups are as unfriendly as people sometimes make out, at least not the ones I have been to. My advice for dads who maybe find that the mums are sharing birth stories (as per a previous poster) is to seek out the people with a toddler as well as a baby. They've been there, done it, and they probably want to talk about Wolf Hall or what they think of the Greek election results!

I wish these rules had been in place when we had our eldest.

If you're taking time off work, take time off work. Don't hog the phone and computer to "work from home". Don't go to "the odd meeting" leaving the baby's mother to do all the school runs while she's still bleeding.

And NEVER EVER EVER claim you are more tired than she is. Whether it's true or not (and let's face it, unless you did all the night wakings, it isn't true), it's distinctly unhelpful. Labour and delivery is exhausting, recovery is exhausting, breastfeeding is exhausting, hormone relevelling is exhausting, and a new mother is biologically incapable of staying asleep when her newborn cries.

Take some time off, and don't plan anything in it. Take time to just be there, gazing lovingly at them both, smeling the baby's head, feeling his tiny fingers. Don't plan to sort out the garage in those two weeks, or write your novel. Don't do, just be.

By the way, expressing is exhausting too. If you want to relieve the new mother of the overnight burden and she wants to ebf, you can do half the work by doing the nappy change, winding, rocking, etc stages.

And NEVER EVER EVER claim you are more tired than she is

Both of DW's friends who have had kids at same time as us, husbands were like this unfortunately. I find it a bit rubbish tbh as they have previously stayed up late watching tv/games etc

smelling the baby's head I wasn't weird then, phew

My dh found it hard going back after his 2 weeks off as he just didn't want to leave our son. I found it hard leaving him at a much later stage to go back to work...I couldn't have done it at 2 weeks!

I think we underestimate men's feelings and all of the support is aimed at women. I remember asking one of the community midwives if there were any support groups for Dads and she looked at me as if I was mad then told me about support for me for pnd etc...which I thankfully didn't have.

My Mum takes our son to two playgroups on the days he isn't at nursery and has found the reception at them to be poles apart. One is very friendly and accepting and the other not so much...I think these things are difficult enough to join as women but if there isn't an accepting attitude then it would be very uncomfortable for men.

No real advice...these were just my experiences and observations.

Don't judge a Dad for not taking Paternity leave. Both times it genuinely wasn't feasible for dh to take that time off.

Some of the comments we got were unnecessary and made him feel like the crappest father ever.

Agree with most of this advice, except the toddler group thing, with DS's 1 and 2 I went to 2 or 3 a week over a period of 3-4 years, and came out with one or two friends, and a whole lot of nodding acquaintances who I saw at the school gates. DH has been with DS3 (he is SAHD, I work full time now) and has lists of numbers in his phone, play dates aplenty, invited on nights out etc etc and generally he is far more grumpy and less chatty than me - lots of mums saw him as a bit of a novelty, not in competition on the 'perfect mum' front or brave for going, so would initiate a conversation with him.

Thanks v much for the input so far. We'll have a look at the wording on our page - thanks for pointing it out.

Find out what work policies are beforehand. DP ended up taking one week,then back at work for a week, then another week, which isn't a legal right but worked better for his job when I went into labour on the one day they had all hoped I wouldn't.

When DP was asked his view of parenting in the early days, he replied "it seems to involve a lot of laundry." And driving errands. So useful to ensure you know how the washer and dryer work and where the nearest laundrette, bf support clinic, HV, supplier of breast pumps and other baby stuff is, as well as late night pharmacy, walk-in clinic and hospital.

All dads I know worry about their role as breadwinner and having money. Budgeting in advance may be reassuring.

Is this advice for DHs/DPs taking the current statutory 2 weeks paternity leave on the baby's birth, or for DHs/DPs taking the new 6 months entitlement once the baby is eg. 5 months old?

The advice would be very different in the two different circs.

I assume mostly the latter from HQs post Bramshott

Quite a lot of men who take paternity leave do so at the current government rate of £138.18 or 90% of their average weekly earnings (whichever is the lowest). They also have to pay tax and NI on this. That is not a lot of money if you are used to taking home a lot more each week! This can put stress on a relationship and a HUGE reluctance to want to take the paternity leave.

What I would encourage partners to do, once they know their partner is pregnant, is contact their wages department and ask them to deduct a regular amount each week and "save" it for them so that when they go on paternity leave what they have had put aside can then be paid to them and they do not feel the pinch so much.

This works very well at the company I work for.

Everything welcome Bramshott but yes, anyone with experience of extended pat leave (or of seeing their spouses do extended pat leave) would be great

and a new mother is biologically incapable of staying asleep when her newborn cries

From experience - wrong. My DW managed it and I was not complaining.

I had 6 months off and then my partner took 5 months paternity leave. His employer was fine with it and have no issues.

My partner did find it too uncomfortable going to the baby and toddler groups although he went to a sure start one a few times with his sister. The only daddy group near us was on a Saturday and I didn't want to spend the morning away from my baby after being at work all week.

I was a SAHD for 8 years.

Based on that experience you should expect:

a) a lot of snide 'jokey' comments from your colleagues when you tell them.

b) to be treated as badly as a woman asking for maternity leave.

c) to be shunned by other SAHM at the school gate because you are obviously a weird man hanging about in a school yard;

d) never to go to a toddler or baby group or ever be invited to any 'mother' based gathering

e) be alone a lot

f) to find it difficult to a future prospective employer why you gave up work - or why you are coming back.

g) to be asked routinely 'what does your wife do?'

Just my experience. I went back to work after 8 years. It really is not accepted by society that a man should stop work and look after his children. Employers resent having to deal with the issue at all. They resent employees asking. They resent any employee not utterly devoted to them 24/7.

Oh and expect to be treated suspiciously by the health visitor if she find you alone with a baby and your wife is not there.

I am not making any of this up.

Crikey andrew - I've genuinely never heard that before!